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Old 22nd May 2006, 07:58 PM   #1
st2_998 is offline st2_998  Italy
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Question Do glue that panel! No, don't!

Hi, everybody!
I'm a newbie at this great forum, and I'm writing from Italy. I'm looking around to build a pair of speakers, probably Proac Clones (I was also excited by other projects on Troels G.'s site). I own a woodworking machine (no tilting circular saw blade, unfortunately) and so I'd like to build my own enclosures too.

I'm sorry I'm going to ask some plain and overly common questions about building you could be really fed up with , in fact I tried digging in the forum but the number of hits was overwhelming and I couldn't find something really focused on the point. I guess this is my fault, though.

1) this is my first project so I can imagine that, although housing the xover in the plinth, I'll do some further tweaking inside, probably with damping. Glueing the whole box appears to be a bad step this way. In order to have a removable back panel I was thinking about routing a recess in the other panel's edges, lying a gasket around and fixing the panel by some good old long screws. This could be also a temporary arrangement, and one day the gasket could be replaced by glue and the screws get the last turn! What do you think about that?

2) looking at various DYI'ers images in the web I noticed that many people is using simple head-to-head technique to build 90 joints (i.e. front to side panels). This is not exactly a bullet-proof woodworking practice, though. Using (inner) corner fillets or recessing the joint area on one panel, in order to obtain a "L" shaped surface for the glue to stick on, is considered to be better. This is true in furniture building, what for loudspeakers? (Obviously 45 cuts should be best practice, especially as far as veneering or lacquering isn't expected) Somewhere I read that glueing is enough and screws are overkill and damage. Do you agree?

3) after installing the "heavy" (i.e. bitumen) damping sheets inside the box, how do you get the "soft" material or sheets sticking in the right position? Glue? (I'm thinking at the top panel''s damping... I wouldn't like it falling down)

4) Is there on the web a sort of "woodworking manual" documenting the practices considered to the be the best ones in enclosure building?

I'm sorry for my boring questions, I hope that somebody will take the time to drop a line.
Thanks a lot!
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Old 22nd May 2006, 10:51 PM   #2
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Glue everything except the removable panels. This way head to head (90 degree) fixing the panels will be sufficient. The joint with PVA glue will be stronger than the wood itself. Only if the cabinet will be heavily abused (PA/on the road) I would use screws for the extra strength. Tho most often screws are (just) used to keep the panels in position while the glue is drying.
Of course you can make it as exotic as you want, better overdoing it, than "under-doing" it.

Note: You will find many different opinions on what is best or is overdone (referring especially to the use of screws and glue).

For the removable panel you can use either plain wood screws or metal screws in combination with t-nuts, in both cases with or without sealant. The normal wood screw in combination with metal rings will prevent the head of the screw to sink in deeper every time you re-attach the panel.
Depending on thickness of the panels used you can partially double the panel thickness (on which you attach the removable panel) around the opening.

For soft materials use spray glue (works like a charm so I heard) or staples.

With kind regards Johan
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Old 22nd May 2006, 11:17 PM   #3
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Luca

1) Your method sounds fine to me.

2) Many people here use butt joints because they don't have the tools to do it any other way, and for domestic use, they are usually strong enough. As you can see below, some of us like the slightly more complicated stuff. Apart from rebates, I've also used biscuits, screws, and even , (once!) dovetails.

3) Staples are your friend.

4) Not that I know of in one place, ( though we do have lots of great info here, it is spread around through different threads), but there is plenty of good advice around if you do a bit of searching.
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Old 23rd May 2006, 01:03 AM   #4
lndm is offline lndm  Australia
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I was going to say the same as Pinkmouse, except that many speaker builders seem to start woodworking when they start speaker building. As you appear to be knowledgeable, go with what you think is right.

Naturally, MDF is a completely different material than solid timber. 90 degree butt joints work better with MDF than other materials. I like to use plywood. I can still get good results with this using simple techniques. I agree that glue is important. You might also consider using cleats.
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Old 23rd May 2006, 04:19 AM   #5
kneadle is offline kneadle  United States
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Just to dovetail ( ) in on what Pinkmouse and lndm said: I have actually taken time off from building speakers in order to learn joinery. I bought a bunch of tools and a book by Tage Fride on joinery.

So there ya go!

Dave
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Old 23rd May 2006, 09:32 AM   #6
st2_998 is offline st2_998  Italy
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Great folks here! Thanks to everybody, most valuable advice!

Quote:
Originally posted by Rademakers

For the removable panel you can use either plain wood screws or metal screws in combination with t-nuts, in both cases with or without sealant. The normal wood screw in combination with metal rings will prevent the head of the screw to sink in deeper every time you re-attach the panel.
D
So I understand that a removable back panel is a rather normal practice...

Surely, joinery is a main woodworking topic and requires patience and precision. Since obtaining a sound (I mean dead ) cabinet is a DIY'er's main goal, joinery becomes very important to us.

Dovetailing... awesome
Obviously for all bracing too

Thanks folks and hive a nice day
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Old 23rd May 2006, 10:07 AM   #7
lndm is offline lndm  Australia
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In my earlier days I used to fear completely glueing up an enclosure in case I needed to get inside. With some practice, I have found I can instal simple braces through a woofer hole. I can adjust/change damping material and instal wiring etc. (I put my crossovers outside the box)
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Old 23rd May 2006, 05:00 PM   #8
kec is offline kec  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by st2_998
So I understand that a removable back panel is a rather normal practice...
A lot of guys, myself included, are using the removable front baffle. You can swap out the baffle anytime without having to rebuild another cabinet.

I do miter cuts on cabinets that I'm veneering. Most people fear miters, but it's not that bad. I use the Jorgensen band(web) clamps when gluing up - works great.


-Ken
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Old 23rd May 2006, 06:33 PM   #9
st2_998 is offline st2_998  Italy
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Thanks Ken
please help me with English
a mitre cut is what you do to end in a butt joint, right?
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Old 23rd May 2006, 06:35 PM   #10
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Mitre cuts are at 45 degrees, (usually).
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