KIT261 vs. Zaph XG18

[ruerose]

KIT261
http://www.diycable.com/main/product...roducts_id=540

Zaph XG18
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker16.html
Floorstanding version Schematic:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speak...AD2-vented.gif


I am looking at doing either of these kits as Floorstanding MTM's.
The problem I have is whether to go for the trendy extremis or stick with zaph's well-thought design.

In similar size boxes, both the XG18 and the Extremis have similar capabilities, with the XG18 edging an extra bit of volume and the extremis extending a little deeper into the 30-40hz range.

My main questions for anyone who might have experience with either or both of these kits:


1. When using the extremis, do I give up too much midrange control and clarity to gain the extra bass extension?


2. At high excursion, am I right to be concerned that the cone movement will cause a "compressing" in the midrange? (I hear this with my FR125's, but I don't think I am explaning it correctly. I do not like it though)


3. For those who have heard them, do these systems play decently loud? (not shake walls loud, but fill the hallway and next room loud)


4. Seas 27TDFC vs Usher Audio 9950C-15. Thoughts?


5. Lobing and off axis responce, MTM's vs. TMM's. Brief primer or helpful URL?


Thank you to everyone for your replies.


PS. Last question, see picture:
Sacrilege! Changing proven design to tapered cabinets and the effects on BSC. Thoughts?

[ruerose]

Clarity: Questions specificly relate in comparison to each kit.

My uneducated impression being:
XG18=control
Extremis=Extension and displacement

Side profile picture:

[sreten]

Originally posted by ruerose

PS. Last question, see picture:
Sacrilege! Changing proven design to tapered cabinets and the effects on BSC. Thoughts?

Effects on BSC will be minimal, though you'd want to lose the sharp front edges.

IMO there is not enough design info / measurements of the 261 kit.

/sreten.

[ShinOBIWAN]

If I were in the same situation as you I'd take the Exodus kit over Zaphs XG18.

The XG18 has rather naff bass(distortion and F3) in the grand scheme of things, although using two helps. Zaph seems to think the midrange is good though, not sure about that myself since I haven't heard it but it measures well.

The Exodus kit looks more rounded to me, good midrange, good bass and the usher doesn't look a bad tweeter at all.

Remember that its important that you choose a kit that you think will suit your needs. I've picked the Exodus over the XG18 because you asked for opinions.

[tktran303]

With speakers, I always think that you need to listen FIRST.

If you can't do that, you need MEASUREMENTS.

You lack both with the Exodus. Now before some n00b goes off and says "Bah it all depends on your needs/ears" etc, maybe you should take a look at it's filter.

IMHO drivers of the quality used in the Exodus 261 deserve a 2.5 way crossover, and not have been stuck with a 2 way crossover in an MMT.

For sure it will play kickass loud, if that's your thing, but I reckon buy it and send it to Zaph (or Dennis Murphy) to redo the passive crossover. :-)

[edit- me cooling off, and less rambling.]

[Zaph]

Hello,

You didn't mention if you are using a sub. If not, and you have plenty of power, the Extremis kit would probably be better for you. You don't give up much in the midrange, the Extremis midrange distortion is almost as good as the XG18. The design surely gets much louder too.

I don't know anything about the Kit 261 design however, but I have no reason to think there's anything wrong with it.

The ideal situation for my XG18 design is with dual subs, crossed over around 130hz LR2 or LR4 on each side.

I've got another MTM in the works right now using different drivers, that does better in the bass but not quite as well in the midrange. The key design element is that it's much cheaper than my XG18 MTM.

John

[ShinOBIWAN]

Originally posted by tktran303
With speakers, I always think that you need to listen FIRST.

If you can't do that, you need MEASUREMENTS.

You lack both with the Exodus. Now before some n00b goes off and says "Bah it all depends on your needs/ears" etc, that person needs to find a clue, or at least learn some basics of passive crossover topology and design.

Drivers of the quality used in the Exodus 261 should not have been stuck with a 2 way crossover for an MMT! Note that measurements are not shown, probably for a good reason.

Buy it and send it to Zaph (or Dennis Murphy) to redo the passive crossover. :-)

What are you rambling on about?

[ShinOBIWAN]

Originally posted by Zaph
I've got another MTM in the works right now using different drivers, that does better in the bass but not quite as well in the midrange. The key design element is that it's much cheaper than my XG18 MTM.

John

Sounds interesting John, maybe ruerose should hold off until that design is published.

[Zaph]

Originally posted by tktran303
Drivers of the quality used in the Exodus 261 should not have been stuck with a 2 way crossover for an MMT! Note that measurements are not shown, probably for a good reason.

That design is a TMM with a 2-way crossover? Umm, the part where I said "I have no reason to think there's anything wrong with it"... well scratch that. Vertical lobing is probably very limited at the crossover point.

[Zaph]

Originally posted by ShinOBIWAN
Sounds interesting John, maybe ruerose should hold off until that design is published.

On the other hand, noticing the countries you guys are from, I thought I'd mention that the new MTM uses Dayton drivers. After you add in the shipping from the states, "cheap" goes away.

One other note: I think I recall Dennis Murphy doing something with the Extremis. Or it might have been JonMarsh. Either way, I would trust those designs.