Would enjoy any opinion of thesehttp://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=302-942
The boxes will be built for me by an experienced woodworker in return for building him an amp. I am planning to buy the exact drivers and build the crossovers on perfboard. So I should have the identical speaker systems at a very good price.
Has anyone heard these? How about imaging/staging properties?
I will drive them with an LM3886 gainclone. I like Jazz, Rock, and good Country.
This will probably be the last speakers I ever invest in. And I really want a system that has both the power of these and good imaging before I go deaf.
Would appreciate the vast knowledge and experience of this thread.
The boxes will be built for me by an experienced woodworker in return for building him an amp. I am planning to buy the exact drivers and build the crossovers on perfboard. So I should have the identical speaker systems at a very good price.
Has anyone heard these? How about imaging/staging properties?
I will drive them with an LM3886 gainclone. I like Jazz, Rock, and good Country.
This will probably be the last speakers I ever invest in. And I really want a system that has both the power of these and good imaging before I go deaf.
Would appreciate the vast knowledge and experience of this thread.
Hi,
nobody can really tell you what is ideal for you.
My current favourite design is :
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker17.html
which I'd build sealed for use with a sub, or floorstanding reflex for full range use.
something similar to these cabinets
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Tempo.html
However a gain clone is not particularly powerful, metal cone drivers
do soak up power, you might be better off with speakers around
90dB/W rather than the 85/86dB/W of the metal cone designs.
/sreten.
nobody can really tell you what is ideal for you.
My current favourite design is :
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker17.html
which I'd build sealed for use with a sub, or floorstanding reflex for full range use.
something similar to these cabinets
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Tempo.html
However a gain clone is not particularly powerful, metal cone drivers
do soak up power, you might be better off with speakers around
90dB/W rather than the 85/86dB/W of the metal cone designs.
/sreten.
# Impedance: 4 ohms
# Sensitivity: 86.5 dB 2.83V/1m
I'm not sure that a Gainclone would be too happy with this low of a sensitivity @ 4 Ohms. Most of its output will be dissipated as heat.
Why not build Lynn Olsen's "Ariel" or its kin , especially if you have an accomplished woodworker lined up?
# Sensitivity: 86.5 dB 2.83V/1m
I'm not sure that a Gainclone would be too happy with this low of a sensitivity @ 4 Ohms. Most of its output will be dissipated as heat.
Why not build Lynn Olsen's "Ariel" or its kin , especially if you have an accomplished woodworker lined up?
You could always parallel two LM3886s and lower the rail voltage a bit. Be sure to provide plenty of heat sink to keep away from SPIKE(R). You'll still be limited to around 100W, or ~93.5 db peaks. Consider a more powerful amp, especially if you like to get loud with these speakers. You could go bridge/parallel chip amps, again at lower than maximum rail voltage.
Ariels are in a whole different price class and won't have enough bass extension for rock, IMHO. While the design is popular, especially among bottleheads, I think you can make a better all around speaker for less.
For a minor increase in price you could substitute the Seas 27TDFC or 27TBFC/G to get a nicer top end. I haven't actually built it, but the Seas tweeters model well in the Dayton kit XO.
For a little more money, upgrade to the RS series drivers. You'll need a new crossover, so take a look at the designs here: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=13969
and here: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=11321 The Natalie P's will cost around $350 for parts. The Modula MT is a bit more refined, but will also cost about $450-500 for a pair.
These two designs will probably come closer to being "last speakers" than the kit you are considering. I haven't actually used the RS180s but given the reviews and my experience with the RS150s they should be quite good. I think I'd build the Seas tweeter versions based on the reports of spotty quality control of the RS28 tweeters.
If you have the room to go the MLTL route with the cabinets, you can get extension to the low 30s or upper 20s in room. I posted a suggested design in the NatalieP thread that amounts to a "Fat Thor" shortened by 6 inches.
These two MTM designs aren't a lot more sensitive than the kit you are considering, so the same considerations apply - more power to stay away from clipping.
Ariels are in a whole different price class and won't have enough bass extension for rock, IMHO. While the design is popular, especially among bottleheads, I think you can make a better all around speaker for less.
For a minor increase in price you could substitute the Seas 27TDFC or 27TBFC/G to get a nicer top end. I haven't actually built it, but the Seas tweeters model well in the Dayton kit XO.
For a little more money, upgrade to the RS series drivers. You'll need a new crossover, so take a look at the designs here: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=13969
and here: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=11321 The Natalie P's will cost around $350 for parts. The Modula MT is a bit more refined, but will also cost about $450-500 for a pair.
These two designs will probably come closer to being "last speakers" than the kit you are considering. I haven't actually used the RS180s but given the reviews and my experience with the RS150s they should be quite good. I think I'd build the Seas tweeter versions based on the reports of spotty quality control of the RS28 tweeters.
If you have the room to go the MLTL route with the cabinets, you can get extension to the low 30s or upper 20s in room. I posted a suggested design in the NatalieP thread that amounts to a "Fat Thor" shortened by 6 inches.
These two MTM designs aren't a lot more sensitive than the kit you are considering, so the same considerations apply - more power to stay away from clipping.
How big is your room and what 12" sub are you using? How loud do you expect to listen on average? Remember that even pop records can have 20-30 dB difference between peak and average levels, so you need a bit of headroom.
Is this a pure music system or will there be HT in the picture?
With HT, you'll probably find 150W isn't nearly enough unless your room is quite small. It may cut it for most music, though. I found that with my 18" JBL drivers 250W wasn't enough, 500 was almost there and 1,000W each handles it OK. Like most subs it needs a bit of EQ to get down to 20 Hz.
With a sub you don't need to worry about making mains that will reach into the 20s or even 30s. If your sub is flat UP to 60-80 Hz you can match the mains roll off to that.
Does your preamp have a built in crossover or will you need to make one? If not, I have a few boards left over from the group buy. See the group buy threads (active filter and scalable PSU) for details. You want to roll off the mains both to match the slope on the sub and to limit the low frequency energy that reaches them.
Is this a pure music system or will there be HT in the picture?
With HT, you'll probably find 150W isn't nearly enough unless your room is quite small. It may cut it for most music, though. I found that with my 18" JBL drivers 250W wasn't enough, 500 was almost there and 1,000W each handles it OK. Like most subs it needs a bit of EQ to get down to 20 Hz.
With a sub you don't need to worry about making mains that will reach into the 20s or even 30s. If your sub is flat UP to 60-80 Hz you can match the mains roll off to that.
Does your preamp have a built in crossover or will you need to make one? If not, I have a few boards left over from the group buy. See the group buy threads (active filter and scalable PSU) for details. You want to roll off the mains both to match the slope on the sub and to limit the low frequency energy that reaches them.
Actually, the system is PC based. I have an external DAC and listen "close field" so (12x12) room acoustics don't enter the picture. The sub woofer system is far more capable than I need.
I'm sure these speakers offer the power I need. I was just wondering about imaging.
What I am listening to now sounds great, but I got the offer of 3/4" Solid Cherry boxes in return for building an amp and couldn't turn it down!
I'm sure these speakers offer the power I need. I was just wondering about imaging.
What I am listening to now sounds great, but I got the offer of 3/4" Solid Cherry boxes in return for building an amp and couldn't turn it down!
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