This is a great forum and I've learnt a great deal from it. Enough to rethink what I would like to build. I am now thinking of Onken type enclosure with maybe two 10" or 12" woofers with the range above maybe 250Hz covered by a homebuilt horn. Similar appearance to the speakers of the fifties and sixties I suppose. Could someone please advise as to what parameters make a woofer suitable for the Onken type enclosure. Most I have tried suitable for BR enclosures end up with the ports miles too long according to the Onken Spreadsheet. The horn would perhaps be driven by a 4" full range driver as the one mentioned by Colin awhile back was.
Thanks for any help,
jamikl
Thanks for any help,
jamikl
Sorry, should have added budget will be a bit limited but as this is a longer term goal something may be able to be done. Room size is approx 6m (20") long and about as wide although that includes a hall that the long side is open to. Floor to ceiling windows all down the other side. 2.4m (8") high. As far as availibility goes I am in Melbourne.
Hi Jamikl
I'm just a bit north of you, in Hawaii.
The Onken is a wonderful bass cabinet, but doesn't seem to be well known in the English speaking world.
I've had a lot of experience listening to Onken cabinets, but alas, no experience building them.
Recently I was trying to help a buddy design an Onken for 15" drivers, but we could not get the spreadsheet to give us good numbers, either. I know that the Onken works well with JBL, TAD and Altec 15" drivers. Also a "mini Onken" with a 10" Focal driver back in the 80s.
Maybe the spreadsheet is flawed? Has anyone else designed a succesful Onken box with current drivers?
I'm just a bit north of you, in Hawaii.
The Onken is a wonderful bass cabinet, but doesn't seem to be well known in the English speaking world.
I've had a lot of experience listening to Onken cabinets, but alas, no experience building them.
Recently I was trying to help a buddy design an Onken for 15" drivers, but we could not get the spreadsheet to give us good numbers, either. I know that the Onken works well with JBL, TAD and Altec 15" drivers. Also a "mini Onken" with a 10" Focal driver back in the 80s.
Maybe the spreadsheet is flawed? Has anyone else designed a succesful Onken box with current drivers?
Greets!
The spreadsheet isn't flawed, I compared it to mine, which was checked by a Frenchman whose technical expertise of audio in general and Onkens in particular is highly regarded.
Low Fs, Qts, high Vas drivers can be tuned low if some form of series resistance is used, though high Vas means a large cab. More recent drivers often have a much lower Vas, which makes the vents way too long if the standard Onken alignments are used.
For mating to a horn, prosound midbass horn drivers should be used for best results and use some form of series resistance as required to get to the desired Fb, so meeting a tight budget is going to be tough unless 'down under' you have available some inexpensive units I'm not aware of.
GM
The spreadsheet isn't flawed, I compared it to mine, which was checked by a Frenchman whose technical expertise of audio in general and Onkens in particular is highly regarded.
Low Fs, Qts, high Vas drivers can be tuned low if some form of series resistance is used, though high Vas means a large cab. More recent drivers often have a much lower Vas, which makes the vents way too long if the standard Onken alignments are used.
For mating to a horn, prosound midbass horn drivers should be used for best results and use some form of series resistance as required to get to the desired Fb, so meeting a tight budget is going to be tough unless 'down under' you have available some inexpensive units I'm not aware of.
GM
Thanks for your input GM. I value your experience. Quite envious of some of your speakers as well!!!! I do belong to the bigger is better school but will probably be limitied to somewhere between 6 and 8 cu. ft. for the main enclosure. I'm in no immediate hurry so can afford to grow the bank balance a bit before I start.
jamikl
jamikl
Old thread
Thanks GM, that's the kind of info we need!
Here is a thread form last year that has some more info.
Onken thread
I know the Onken W and the Focal mentioned in the 1st post.
The W was VERY impressive! Double 15" drivers in a double wall sand filled enclosure. Very pure bass, and plenty of it.
I hope to can pull some good info from the French articles jamikl sends.
Thanks GM, that's the kind of info we need!
Here is a thread form last year that has some more info.
Onken thread
I know the Onken W and the Focal mentioned in the 1st post.
The W was VERY impressive! Double 15" drivers in a double wall sand filled enclosure. Very pure bass, and plenty of it.
I hope to can pull some good info from the French articles jamikl sends.
OK, looking back at some of the old Onken threads I see the GM is all over them. He seems to be the Onken Guy!
Just read the 1977 Jean Hiraga original article and Phillppe Vibou's 1982 case building article. Neither give formulas. Jean just says "build it like this, or it won't work" and Phillippe gives details and photos for building the case.
One of the great qualities of the Onkens I heard was the amazing Nantex plywood. Philippe mentions how hard it is (was) to work with. I can vouch for that. In '86 I rebuilt a pair of Altec A7s for Jean Hiraga using Nantex plywood. (My favorite speakers of all time) It was the hardest damn stuff I ever saw. Like cutting and drilling granite! But it sure was neutral. No box sound at all. Magic. Sure wish I could find wood like that now....
Just read the 1977 Jean Hiraga original article and Phillppe Vibou's 1982 case building article. Neither give formulas. Jean just says "build it like this, or it won't work" and Phillippe gives details and photos for building the case.
One of the great qualities of the Onkens I heard was the amazing Nantex plywood. Philippe mentions how hard it is (was) to work with. I can vouch for that. In '86 I rebuilt a pair of Altec A7s for Jean Hiraga using Nantex plywood. (My favorite speakers of all time) It was the hardest damn stuff I ever saw. Like cutting and drilling granite! But it sure was neutral. No box sound at all. Magic. Sure wish I could find wood like that now....
Re: Old thread
Greets!
You're welcome!
Onken Guy? Well, if so, only around these parts.
The formulas were in a French magazine article, l'Audiophile?
The Onken W is a very straightforward BR, with its main claim to fame being the sand filled double wall construction. Lining a 19 mm Baltic Birch plywood cab with 3/4" drywall will suffice. It's the dual Altec 416 woofers that makes this cab 'sing'.
I've never seen the Nantex, but I've used both 1" no-void marine grade and Baltic Birch and both cuts like it's made of iron, so I wonder if it's basically like either of these.
GM
panomaniac said:
Greets!
You're welcome!
Onken Guy? Well, if so, only around these parts.
The formulas were in a French magazine article, l'Audiophile?
The Onken W is a very straightforward BR, with its main claim to fame being the sand filled double wall construction. Lining a 19 mm Baltic Birch plywood cab with 3/4" drywall will suffice. It's the dual Altec 416 woofers that makes this cab 'sing'.
I've never seen the Nantex, but I've used both 1" no-void marine grade and Baltic Birch and both cuts like it's made of iron, so I wonder if it's basically like either of these.
GM
Hi guys, please try and calculate/sim this 18" BMS driver - I think it might be perfect for Onken box
http://www.bmspro.info/index.php?show=item&usbid=10286&id=5049386
http://www.bmspro.info/index.php?show=item&usbid=10286&id=5049386
Greets!
Me too, but it doesn't matter. Think about it, the vent's pipe resonances will still be there, comb filtering with the mains, and since they will be higher in amplitude and probably further away, it will probably be much more audible. Of course if the tuning and/or peak power applied is such that the vent(s) is never energized fully, then this is moot and why a tuning that either isn't too close/at a major fundamental or damping the vent is a good plan.
GM
Me too, but it doesn't matter. Think about it, the vent's pipe resonances will still be there, comb filtering with the mains, and since they will be higher in amplitude and probably further away, it will probably be much more audible. Of course if the tuning and/or peak power applied is such that the vent(s) is never energized fully, then this is moot and why a tuning that either isn't too close/at a major fundamental or damping the vent is a good plan.
GM
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