DIY vs. heavily discounted Polks

[psu80]

I know this is a subjective question but I would like some opinions. I am contemplating building a North Creek HT system using their Okara kit. I would use the MTM kit for LCR and the MT for the surrounds. Cost for the most basic system is about $940 not including cabinets (which I would build).

They offer several upgrade paths including upgraded crossover components and upgraded tweeter. Has anyone heard these speakers and know if the upgrades are worth the extra cost? Are there any opinions on the North Creek kits or what other vendors I should consider for comparable performance?

Complicating my decision is the fact that I can get a 62% discount on Polk RTi speakers. A system consisting of 2 RTi8's, 1 CSi5, 2 RTi6's would run about $680 or $730 if I use FXi5's for the surrounds instead of the 6's. Would I be better off just going with the Polks or could I build a much better DIY 5.0 system for roughly the same money? Sorry for the long post but I'm really not sure what direction to take.

Thanks

[Cal Weldon]

Heavy discount is a good thing. You may be able to match it for the price but you won't have the satisfaction of DIY. This forum is built on that spirit so it might be tough to get an objective answer.

[SCD]

MY observant friend Cal is right again:

This group of misfits tends to focus on the audio journey and not so much on the end product.
I for one have four pairs of speakers in my living room and am starting on two more sets. DIY is what it is really all about for most of us.

If you are into learning and DIY then we can likely help. If you are after comparisons to store bought that might be a little tougher. Heck even disucussion about kits might be a bit hard to come by.


Sorry I do not know anything about the kits or the store bought stuff you describe.

Good luck.

[cotdt]

I think a good quarter of us here don't really like DIY all that much but simply do it to get great speakers that meet one's tastes and do it for cheap. That said, if you pick a nice DIY design to build, you'll get great value and quality. Recently, some of my favorite bands have gotten custom speaker builders to build DIY speaker designs for them and they've been quoted to be surprised by how good the speakers sounded (specifically designs using Dayton Reference or Seas Excel metal drivers). However, many (most) DIY designs are terrible.

[TerryO]

Originally posted by cotdt
I think a good quarter of us here don't really like DIY all that much but simply do it to get great speakers that meet one's tastes and do it for cheap. That said, if you pick a nice DIY design to build, you'll get great value and quality. Recently, some of my favorite bands have gotten custom speaker builders to build DIY speaker designs for them and they've been quoted to be surprised by how good the speakers sounded (specifically designs using Dayton Reference or Seas Excel metal drivers). However, many (most) DIY designs are terrible.

Mr. cotdt,

I suppose that you can document your assertion that "a good quarter" of us here don't really like DIY?

As for your last statement that: "many (most) DIY designs are terrible", is a statement that you need to expand on to gain any credibility. As I'm not aware of "any" positive contributions that you've supplied to this or any other venue, I'm afraid that you must shoulder the burden of proof.

Back to the real thread:
Like SCD above, I'm more into exploring the possibilities, enjoying the journey, than actually trying to reach a predetermined goal. I've gotten as much satisfaction modifying my Radio Shack Minimus 7's as designing a unique design. However, I do maintain several commercial speakers just for comparison, but find that I enjoy my DIY speakers a lot more. Before my wife put her foot down, I had 11 pairs of speakers in our living room.


Best Regards,
TerryO

[RJ]

How about this. I walk into an audio store and ask if I can take those speakers home and listen to them for a day. If I don't like them I'll bring them back and take home another pair to listen and this'll happen over and over again.
Think that'll happen? Yet, that's exactly what I get a chance to experience.

[cotdt]

TerryO, you're asking me to prove my own opinions? Of course I cannot do such a thing, however I will say that as an example many DIY designs cross 7" metal cone woofers to almost 3kHz. Can't possibly sound good based on my experience with them and what is known about them.

[peace brainerd]

I own a pair of rt55i Polks. They are one of only three commercial designs I have ever owned. I always liked Polks from the days when I worked in a small town stereo shop in the mid seventies. I picked these up about a year ago because the price was very nice and they looked promising. Right away I didn't care for the perfomance compared to what I've been able to do so far DIY. I don't have a lot of testing gear so I cannot be really fair here, but they were classically "big box store" sounding - like they were tuned to impress in a warm big bloated lush overstuffed living room with a sound to match.

I took them apart out of curiosity. I was VERY disappointed with the construction and quality of speaker and crossover components. Pretty dark blue tinted poly woofers with a decent rubber surround, but inside were the flimsiest stamped baskets I've seen in a long time. The dome tweeter looked even worse - all lightweight plastic with a neodymium sized magnet, but it's not neodymium. No decent sealing of components to baffle. Just kind of thrown together looking.

The replacement prices for these components are breathtaking (I called and asked). As a diy'er I'm used to getting three times this quality for half this price. Ultra thin gauge internal wiring. A lightweight cardboard port tube was actually rattling around inside of one of the cabinets. I discovered that it was pressed into it's hole in the baffle and held in place with a rubber ring - very easily knocked loose. These are definitely NOT your father's Polks.

What bothered me most was the very glaring difference between the visible quality of the cabinet, finish, mounting posts, and drivers of this system, and what I discovered to be the real innards being paid for.

Strikes me as dishonest. DIY has spoiled me from ever going commercial again - at least in the under 1000 dollar price range.
I guess I'll be rolling my own for a while yet.

It seems that DIY and "commercial" are losing their boundaries anymore. Much out there, such as Polk Audio, is definitively "commercial" - but there are increasing numbers of hybrid offerings, from such as North Creek, that blur the distinction. You're not going blind into the madisound catalog and doing the whole kit yourself.
Given those two choices however, I'd say that expecting much much more for your money from North Creek than from Polk today would be a very safe bet.

[TerryO]

Originally posted by bluebeard

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Snip~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What bothered me most was the very glaring difference between the visible quality of the cabinet, finish, mounting posts, and drivers of this system, and what I discovered to be the real innards being paid for.

Strikes me as dishonest. DIY has spoiled me from ever going commercial again - at least in the under 1000 dollar price range.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Snip~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Given those two choices however, I'd say that expecting much much more for your money from North Creek than from Polk today would be a very safe bet.

I couldn't agree more with most of what you've said.

The last statement is certainly true, and North Creek isn't the only one offering superior value.

I have to disagree with your statement about "the under 1000 dollar price range". My take on it is that the least expensive range is the area that is tough to beat a commercial design. Economies of scale, heavy discounts for volume purchases, etc., all weigh in favor of the commercial brand. They tend to sell more speakers, and their profit margin may be less but is offset by sheer volume.
Last week I happened to be over at a well known driver designer's shop and while shooting the breeze I noticed that he had a very expensive looking speaker sitting in the corner. Anyhow, this fellow explained that the speaker belonged to a friend of his and he was designing a new crossover for it. The gist of it was, that this well known $6000 speaker used some of the cheapest electrolitic caps and crap inductors around. Components so cheap that even TerryO would be reluctant to use them! Now I know that he was either exaggerating or the quality of the parts was pretty sad indeed:^)

Now I tend to use cheap drivers and parts and have had some success, but I spend a fair amount of time and a lot of experimenting and modding to get there. At the low end of the scale, used speakers can be had for mere pennies on the dollar and can offer superior sound for your money if you're looking to just purchase.

Be warned, DIY is very addictive!

Best Regards,
TerryO

[Shaun]

TerryO, you're asking me to prove my own opinions? Of course I cannot do such a thing, however I will say that as an example many DIY designs cross 7" metal cone woofers to almost 3kHz. Can't possibly sound good based on my experience with them and what is known about them.

cotdt, it is unfair and misleading to present a design you adjudge to be imperfect as representative of "many (most) DIY designs". This is part of the journey the DIYer goes on: discovering what makes and breaks a design. So, from me, just a few pointers:

1) You are technically correct to assert that the crossover point in your example is suboptimal, but that does not mean that the final product did not satisfy to the builder.

2) DIYers soon learn by their mistakes (the journey), so I would not expect a builder to repeat his/her errors.

3) The kit that psu80 is considering is far from imperfect in that it is designed by a seasoned and well-respected loudspeaker designer

4) Lighten up: we want to grow the community, not chase prospective members away ;-)