Veneering the Ariel

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I want to veneer my Ariel cabinets but the front two corners have tight radii roundovers (1" and 1.25"). Therefore, one soild peice of veneer must cover the sides and the front. Just wondering if anyone has successfuly acomplished this?

The vacuum press looks like a useful tool, but I still can't figure out how to press the piece onto the cabinet. You would have to press it in one shot (all 3 sides pressed at once). You'd need to use a caul so that the inch (or so) of over hang doesn't get ripped off. Ive read that 1/8" italian poplar bending ply might work, but i'd need several sheets to get to a thickness that wouldn't bend at the overhanging edges. Anyway, that method seems too expensive and I dont even know if it would work.

Another way would be with lots of clamps and glue one side at a time. However, I wouldn't be able to get any clamping pressure on the roundover corners and I would have trouble getting clamps with a deep enough throat to span 14".

And of course there's contact cement, which I have had problems with in the past.

Sorry for the length. If anyone has experience with this I would REALLY appreciate any input.
 
Hi Rob,

Glad to see that you are still working on the Ariels.

Although I don't yet have a veneer press, I believe that the speaker is placed on its back, baffle side up with adhesive applied to baffle and both sides so that all 3 are glued at once. The speaker is suspended above the platen by a board which allows the overhang of the veneer to extend beyond the back edge but not as far as the platen. Then the bag is vacuumed and all three surfaces are glued at once. The overhang is trimmed after.

Mwmkratchenko, a member is very good with his press and he is located in Ottawa. Try contacting him for advice and perhaps more. I would try to locate someone with a press in the TO area by speaking with local cabinetmakers or woodworking suppliers.

Also, although I use PVA applied by caul pressure with my speakers, I think that Unibond 800 is a superior adhesive, an expensive epoxy. Good luck with your project. Fred
 
I had the name of the Ottawa cabinetmaker spelled incorrectly in the previous post. His posting name is mwmkravchenko. He knows his stuff. Send him an email about the use of the press.

Any pictures that I have seen of the bag in action show the bag directly on the veneer. The overhang should be as little as possible, probably 1/8 to 1/4 inch to prevent it breaking. As I see it the bag will fold over the overhang as it is under vacuum but as I said, I don't have any direct experience. With the veneer taped in position at the top and bottom of the baffle, the grain running the same way as the roundovers, the veneer will have no problem conforming to the form of the enclosure.
 
Becuase you are veneering, you don't really need to worry abut seems telegraphing. I don't know what they used for a sealer, but, they basically comprimised the strength of the their veneer bond where they applied sealer.

Vacuum bagging a project such as yours is not nuts; but it is problematic. It could be done if you used water & heat to preform your veneer. The vacuum bags "draws up" at all point at once so unless the radius between the center section and sides is preformed you would likely have severe buckleing in this area. Keep in mind the kauls are only needed wher the veneer hang over an edge

Seriously look into the PVA and iron method... it is a standard time honored approach. it will also allow to run the grain anyway you wish... an 1/8 to 1/4 raduis perpendicular to grain is not impossible... or even that risky. Your larger radii would be cake.

;)
 
Poobah,

Your method of veneering looks very interesting, Im just not sure about a few things:

- The place I get my veneer from only sells paperback, which will not work with the iron method (I could find a different store I guess)

- The iron, like you say, leaves large burn marks and dents. Unless I missed it, the sanding follow up to your method was left out. You can really sand out dents and burn marks in veneer? Isnt it too thin?

If you say it will work better, then I think I will give it a try. So the basic procedure is as follows:

1. Use iron and steam to somewhat flatten out the ripples
2. Apply water/glue mixture to veneer and MDF, let dry.
3. Iron it on
4. Sand the living crap out of it
 
Robphill33,

The method I outlined was for burlwood layed over a golfball. This is the most extreme example of veneering. Paper back veneers can do the same method as well. Because the paperback veneers are so smooth and flat (and thin); they are very easy to do with the PVA/iron method... especiallly when no compound curves (sections of a sphere) are involved.

My only concern is that you dont spend a load of bucks; and screw it up. You could "bag" this; and there are some compelling reasons to do so... but it is hit or miss. It is something you pursue if you wanted to make a thousand. Tricky, at best, for a one shot project.

Send a photo or post a link, so I can see the shape of the Ariels. Tell us what kind of veneer you are thinking about... and post a link for that as well.

I can wrap any veneer around a golfball... a lost art... but I used to restore old Mercedes... learned the HARD way.

And if there is real interest... I will post some secrets of sanding (knowing when to quit).







;)
 
Poobah,

I dont have a digital camera so I wont be able to post a picture until next week. However, the cabinets look exactly like this
arielgold.jpg


I purchase veneer from
http://www.exotic-woods.com/

I am thinking of using walnut veneer on the speakers.

I will practice on a scrap peice of MDF tonight. Thanks for your advice.
 
Those are a walk in park...

I did hit a few veneer sites that had more detailed explanations than I had given re the method.

Google "iron veneer PVA". My treatise was more about unbacked burl... which is hellish at first.

Yes, definately pratice before you attack your honeys. Remember PVA is meant to stick to wood... so if your Ariel's have a finish... it has to come off.

Get 'er done!

:D
 
Unreal!!!!!

The iron/PVA method worked perfectly. I made a scrap corner piece with the 1" radius to put the veneer on. I slightly watered down yellow carpenters glue and rolled it on with a small roller (one coat). It bonded to the MDF without much pressure (but I pressed hard anyway) and it went around the corner with extreme easy. I can now see why 1/8" radii can be done. Anyway, there are no burn marks, dents or bubbles in the veneer. Now all I have to do is pray that it will not bubble over time. When I applied veneer to my last pair of speakers (with contact cement) they began to bubble after about 2 months. So, if it doesn't bubble then this is the greatest veneering method ever for diyer's (everyone should do it like this).

A huge thankyou to Poobah. You saved me a lot of time and money diverting me away from the vacuum press. Those cabinets are being veneered this weekend!!
 
Good news robphill33,

Just remember to remove your existing finish. And it's not a bad idea to sand with some 36 grit evenly and HARD. Then a quick once over with some 120 grit to remove the "hair".

Don't even think of oil based stain... stuff should be outlawed.

You may want to work with some sort of roller... you need to keep pressure while the PVA is cooling. You should be using your iron on the hottest setting... cotton.

Your first finish coat should be allowed to dry for days. You want it to form a wall so that subsequent coats do not soak the PVA with solvent.

Acool way to finish walnut is just go buy a bag of walnuts. Crunch em up in your hand... make sure there is NO shells and just start rubbing.

COOL

EDIT: You DID put the glue on both the veneer and the substrate right???

:D
 
I have problems with veneering when I have to use more sheets joining.
I cant cut their edge properly. I'am using a cutter with a board as a ruler,
but it always break in or will be unregular, and not a smooth and straight line.
Can anybody tell me a secret solution to this problem too ? :)
 
1) Don't use a board as a ruler... get a piece of straight steel or aluminium.

2a) Glue 120 sandpaper onto one side of the ruler. Keep the sandpaper 1 mm away from the edges of the ruler. Turn the ruler over and use light (soft) clamp on each end. The sandpaper will keep the ruler from moving.

2b) Put CHEAP masking tape (crepe) over the line you want to cut.

2c) Put HEAVY/THICK paper under the veneer you are cutting. This prevents woodgrain under your veneer (your workbench)from taking command of your knife.

3) Use a proper stone and sharpen your knife often... almost every cut.

4) Make several light cuts... NOT one heavy one... the first is the most important.

5) Do not :drink: until you are done.

;)
 
It sounds great, thx very much poobah for the information, i'll try this out !
My other problem is (but its definitely about improperly glued case)
when I paint (dont know the right word for coloring a wood with a fluid)
the surface, at some place the veneer comes up, and creates waves.
When I'am carefull, I can eliminate this effect, but sometimes I have to
use a lot of fluid to reach the appropriate and homogeneous colorization.
 
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