Veneering the Ariel - Page 2

poobah · 20th April 2006, 03:45 AM

Robphill33,

The method I outlined was for burlwood layed over a golfball. This is the most extreme example of veneering. Paper back veneers can do the same method as well. Because the paperback veneers are so smooth and flat (and thin); they are very easy to do with the PVA/iron method... especiallly when no compound curves (sections of a sphere) are involved.

My only concern is that you dont spend a load of bucks; and screw it up. You could "bag" this; and there are some compelling reasons to do so... but it is hit or miss. It is something you pursue if you wanted to make a thousand. Tricky, at best, for a one shot project.

Send a photo or post a link, so I can see the shape of the Ariels. Tell us what kind of veneer you are thinking about... and post a link for that as well.

I can wrap any veneer around a golfball... a lost art... but I used to restore old Mercedes... learned the HARD way.

And if there is real interest... I will post some secrets of sanding (knowing when to quit).

RobPhill33 · 20th April 2006, 11:57 AM

Poobah,

I dont have a digital camera so I wont be able to post a picture until next week. However, the cabinets look exactly like this

I purchase veneer from
http://www.exotic-woods.com/

I am thinking of using walnut veneer on the speakers.

I will practice on a scrap peice of MDF tonight. Thanks for your advice.

poobah · 20th April 2006, 03:46 PM

Those are a walk in park...

I did hit a few veneer sites that had more detailed explanations than I had given re the method.

Google "iron veneer PVA". My treatise was more about unbacked burl... which is hellish at first.

Yes, definately pratice before you attack your honeys. Remember PVA is meant to stick to wood... so if your Ariel's have a finish... it has to come off.

Get 'er done!

RobPhill33 · 21st April 2006, 02:37 AM

Unreal!!!!!

The iron/PVA method worked perfectly. I made a scrap corner piece with the 1" radius to put the veneer on. I slightly watered down yellow carpenters glue and rolled it on with a small roller (one coat). It bonded to the MDF without much pressure (but I pressed hard anyway) and it went around the corner with extreme easy. I can now see why 1/8" radii can be done. Anyway, there are no burn marks, dents or bubbles in the veneer. Now all I have to do is pray that it will not bubble over time. When I applied veneer to my last pair of speakers (with contact cement) they began to bubble after about 2 months. So, if it doesn't bubble then this is the greatest veneering method ever for diyer's (everyone should do it like this).

A huge thankyou to Poobah. You saved me a lot of time and money diverting me away from the vacuum press. Those cabinets are being veneered this weekend!!

poobah · 21st April 2006, 02:50 AM

Good news robphill33,

Just remember to remove your existing finish. And it's not a bad idea to sand with some 36 grit evenly and HARD. Then a quick once over with some 120 grit to remove the "hair".

Don't even think of oil based stain... stuff should be outlawed.

You may want to work with some sort of roller... you need to keep pressure while the PVA is cooling. You should be using your iron on the hottest setting... cotton.

Your first finish coat should be allowed to dry for days. You want it to form a wall so that subsequent coats do not soak the PVA with solvent.

Acool way to finish walnut is just go buy a bag of walnuts. Crunch em up in your hand... make sure there is NO shells and just start rubbing.

COOL

EDIT: You DID put the glue on both the veneer and the substrate right???

lousymusician · 21st April 2006, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by poobah
And if there is real interest... I will post some secrets of sanding (knowing when to quit).

Please do!

poobah · 21st April 2006, 03:03 AM

sure Lousy... sure,

Gimme a few days -

Cortez · 21st April 2006, 06:17 AM

I have problems with veneering when I have to use more sheets joining.
I cant cut their edge properly. I'am using a cutter with a board as a ruler,
but it always break in or will be unregular, and not a smooth and straight line.
Can anybody tell me a secret solution to this problem too ?

poobah · 21st April 2006, 06:33 AM

1) Don't use a board as a ruler... get a piece of straight steel or aluminium.

2a) Glue 120 sandpaper onto one side of the ruler. Keep the sandpaper 1 mm away from the edges of the ruler. Turn the ruler over and use light (soft) clamp on each end. The sandpaper will keep the ruler from moving.

2b) Put CHEAP masking tape (crepe) over the line you want to cut.

2c) Put HEAVY/THICK paper under the veneer you are cutting. This prevents woodgrain under your veneer (your workbench)from taking command of your knife.

3) Use a proper stone and sharpen your knife often... almost every cut.

4) Make several light cuts... NOT one heavy one... the first is the most important.

5) Do not

until you are done.

Cortez · 21st April 2006, 06:50 AM

It sounds great, thx very much poobah for the information, i'll try this out !
My other problem is (but its definitely about improperly glued case)
when I paint (dont know the right word for coloring a wood with a fluid)
the surface, at some place the veneer comes up, and creates waves.
When I'am carefull, I can eliminate this effect, but sometimes I have to
use a lot of fluid to reach the appropriate and homogeneous colorization.

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20th April 2006, 03:45 AM	#11
poobah diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2005	Robphill33, The method I outlined was for burlwood layed over a golfball. This is the most extreme example of veneering. Paper back veneers can do the same method as well. Because the paperback veneers are so smooth and flat (and thin); they are very easy to do with the PVA/iron method... especiallly when no compound curves (sections of a sphere) are involved. My only concern is that you dont spend a load of bucks; and screw it up. You could "bag" this; and there are some compelling reasons to do so... but it is hit or miss. It is something you pursue if you wanted to make a thousand. Tricky, at best, for a one shot project. Send a photo or post a link, so I can see the shape of the Ariels. Tell us what kind of veneer you are thinking about... and post a link for that as well. I can wrap any veneer around a golfball... a lost art... but I used to restore old Mercedes... learned the HARD way. And if there is real interest... I will post some secrets of sanding (knowing when to quit).

20th April 2006, 11:57 AM	#12
RobPhill33 diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Milton Ontario	Poobah, I dont have a digital camera so I wont be able to post a picture until next week. However, the cabinets look exactly like this I purchase veneer from http://www.exotic-woods.com/ I am thinking of using walnut veneer on the speakers. I will practice on a scrap peice of MDF tonight. Thanks for your advice.

20th April 2006, 03:46 PM	#13
poobah diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2005	Those are a walk in park... I did hit a few veneer sites that had more detailed explanations than I had given re the method. Google "iron veneer PVA". My treatise was more about unbacked burl... which is hellish at first. Yes, definately pratice before you attack your honeys. Remember PVA is meant to stick to wood... so if your Ariel's have a finish... it has to come off. Get 'er done!

21st April 2006, 02:37 AM	#14
RobPhill33 diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Milton Ontario	Unreal!!!!! The iron/PVA method worked perfectly. I made a scrap corner piece with the 1" radius to put the veneer on. I slightly watered down yellow carpenters glue and rolled it on with a small roller (one coat). It bonded to the MDF without much pressure (but I pressed hard anyway) and it went around the corner with extreme easy. I can now see why 1/8" radii can be done. Anyway, there are no burn marks, dents or bubbles in the veneer. Now all I have to do is pray that it will not bubble over time. When I applied veneer to my last pair of speakers (with contact cement) they began to bubble after about 2 months. So, if it doesn't bubble then this is the greatest veneering method ever for diyer's (everyone should do it like this). A huge thankyou to Poobah. You saved me a lot of time and money diverting me away from the vacuum press. Those cabinets are being veneered this weekend!!

21st April 2006, 02:50 AM	#15
poobah diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2005	Good news robphill33, Just remember to remove your existing finish. And it's not a bad idea to sand with some 36 grit evenly and HARD. Then a quick once over with some 120 grit to remove the "hair". Don't even think of oil based stain... stuff should be outlawed. You may want to work with some sort of roller... you need to keep pressure while the PVA is cooling. You should be using your iron on the hottest setting... cotton. Your first finish coat should be allowed to dry for days. You want it to form a wall so that subsequent coats do not soak the PVA with solvent. Acool way to finish walnut is just go buy a bag of walnuts. Crunch em up in your hand... make sure there is NO shells and just start rubbing. COOL EDIT: You DID put the glue on both the veneer and the substrate right???

21st April 2006, 03:03 AM	#17
poobah diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2005	sure Lousy... sure, Gimme a few days -

21st April 2006, 06:17 AM	#18
Cortez diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hungary	I have problems with veneering when I have to use more sheets joining. I cant cut their edge properly. I'am using a cutter with a board as a ruler, but it always break in or will be unregular, and not a smooth and straight line. Can anybody tell me a secret solution to this problem too ?

21st April 2006, 06:33 AM	#19
poobah diyAudio Member Join Date: Nov 2005	1) Don't use a board as a ruler... get a piece of straight steel or aluminium. 2a) Glue 120 sandpaper onto one side of the ruler. Keep the sandpaper 1 mm away from the edges of the ruler. Turn the ruler over and use light (soft) clamp on each end. The sandpaper will keep the ruler from moving. 2b) Put CHEAP masking tape (crepe) over the line you want to cut. 2c) Put HEAVY/THICK paper under the veneer you are cutting. This prevents woodgrain under your veneer (your workbench)from taking command of your knife. 3) Use a proper stone and sharpen your knife often... almost every cut. 4) Make several light cuts... NOT one heavy one... the first is the most important. 5) Do not until you are done.

21st April 2006, 06:50 AM	#20
Cortez diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Hungary	It sounds great, thx very much poobah for the information, i'll try this out ! My other problem is (but its definitely about improperly glued case) when I paint (dont know the right word for coloring a wood with a fluid) the surface, at some place the veneer comes up, and creates waves. When I'am carefull, I can eliminate this effect, but sometimes I have to use a lot of fluid to reach the appropriate and homogeneous colorization.

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