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Old 2nd April 2006, 06:52 PM   #1
JonFo is offline JonFo  United States
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Default Mid-bass line array -extremis

Im designing a mid-bass array to augment an ESL panel with. This line array will be 4 long and should handle the frequency ranges of 85 to 450hz.

Im looking to get good near-field coverage of distances of up to 14 away from the drivers.

Im currently thinking of stacking 6 Adire Extermis as closely as possible into the 4 height.

Ill be using power tapering of the two outer speakers to maintain focus.

My biggest question is will this give me the kind of SPL at 12 to 14 to keep up with a 4 by 12 ESL panel?

Are there other designs of line arrays with the extremis out there?
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Old 3rd April 2006, 01:17 AM   #2
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A pro sound midbass might be better suited to your needs. Something like the B&C 10PLB76 10" woofer.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/294-659.pdf

You would only need 4 of them for your array.
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Old 3rd April 2006, 05:54 AM   #3
nate is offline nate  United States
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I think that the Extremis drivers would be really great. If you wanted you could push that 85HZ high pass down quite a ways and eliminate the need for a sub.

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Old 3rd April 2006, 06:00 AM   #4
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I would also not recommend power tapering of the woofers. Do some searches on line array theory and driver spacing. Read Griffin's line array white paper too. Most of the information that you need will be found there.

With the upper frequency that you are working with, you might be able to space the drivers out a little more and create a taller line source without any lobing. There are many benefits to this and at your listening distance, you will take advantage of many of them. You will be loading the room (with bass) vertically. This will help a great deal with bass nulls.

Sounds like a great project. Which stat panel are you using?
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Old 3rd April 2006, 06:53 AM   #5
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Typically ESL panels are even less efficient than the Extremis (and that is before factoring in 6 of them). As long as you supply them with a baffle that supports them down to their cutoff they will be fine i'd guess. If the ESL isn't power tapered i wouldn't bother doing that with the extremis.

And i assume you are multi-amping?

dave
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Old 3rd April 2006, 08:59 AM   #6
JonFo is offline JonFo  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by nate
I think that the Extremis drivers would be really great. If you wanted you could push that 85HZ high pass down quite a ways and eliminate the need for a sub.

nate
Well, my IB sub goes to 10Hz pretty cleanly, and very , very loudly. A must to keep up with the big ESL L/Rs. Those are Martin Logan Monolith IIIs.
The Sub stays, plus, its part of the room now


Quote:
Originally posted by nate
I would also not recommend power tapering of the woofers. Do some searches on line array theory and driver spacing. Read Griffin's line array white paper too. Most of the information that you need will be found there.

With the upper frequency that you are working with, you might be able to space the drivers out a little more and create a taller line source without any lobing. There are many benefits to this and at your listening distance, you will take advantage of many of them. You will be loading the room (with bass) vertically. This will help a great deal with bass nulls.

Sounds like a great project. Which stat panel are you using?
Nate
Thanks Nate, I read the Griffin Doc and many of the LA posting on this forum for a few weeks. I wondered about just how applicable any form of tapering might be at these frequencies. I was being cautious.
While I would like to have a longer array, Im constrained by the height of the screen and the fact that this will mount to the top of the IB Sub manifold (my sub is the first Outie inverse manifold IB). As you can see from the pics in my IB Build story, the array would sit on top of that Sub box, which is a 22 cube. So the top of the array is at 22+48+2 = 72.

The stat panel comes from a Martin Logan SL-3, as will the associated electronics. The housing from the original SL-3 will be modified (i.e. the woofer cut off) to build this.

Quote:
Originally posted by planet10
Typically ESL panels are even less efficient than the Extremis (and that is before factoring in 6 of them). As long as you supply them with a baffle that supports them down to their cutoff they will be fine i'd guess. If the ESL isn't power tapered i wouldn't bother doing that with the extremis.

And i assume you are multi-amping?

dave
Yes, Ill be using a DBX DriveRack 260 speaker processor in a 1x3 or 1 x4 config. My original concept for this involved a 1x4 crossover as follows:

Bass 85Hz crossover to Infinite Baffle sub, 24db / octave LR
MidBass1 85Hz highpass, 24db / octave LR, 450 low-pass 12db / octave
MidBass2 85Hz highpass, 24db / octave LR, 250 low-pass 6db / octave, delay, limiters
Highs 450Hz highpass, 12db /octave

However, based on what Nate said, it sounds like thats overkill for these frequencies. I do have a 800 w (4 ohm) Sunfire amp channel dedicated to the ESL panel, and still have another 3x200 w (8 ohm) Sunfire amp channels to play with for this project. So splitting the array up is easy, but if not necessary, then I wont.

Thanks for the feedback and keep it coming.
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Old 3rd April 2006, 09:55 AM   #7
JonFo is offline JonFo  United States
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Default Enclosure design

One more thing: Enclosure design

Adires guidelines are for roughly 9.5L per driver in a sealed alignment, therefore the line array box is a simple tower that measures 48x10x12.5 to yield an internal volume of roughly 60 Liters in a sealed alignment.
Using six internal braces for reinforcement, the box is pretty simple to construct. All sides are 1 MDF. As the speaker is never really visible, the finish will be flat black paint.

Any opinions on the use of sealed vs vented for this application?
Sealed would be simpler (and smaller).

Thanks,
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Old 4th April 2006, 03:05 AM   #8
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I'd think you'd want to maintain the dipole as far down as possible (ie extremis in an open baffle)

dave
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Old 4th April 2006, 12:15 PM   #9
JonFo is offline JonFo  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by planet10
I'd think you'd want to maintain the dipole as far down as possible (ie extremis in an open baffle)

dave

Dave, Im, precisely trying to avoid dipoles at these frequencies due to rear wave cancellations. The ESL panel will readily play down to 250Hz, but the cancellations are severe and cause a noticeable suck-out.

Im looking to get clean, high SPLs from 85 to 500Hz out of the line array. Power is not a problem (I can do 2x200w into the array), so a sealed design seemed like the best way to achieve this.

Again, as the center channel, the music and vocal ranges are often concentrated there, and Im looking for a strong mid-bass foundation that will keep up with the ESL and the IB sub in terms of clarity and ultimate SPL.
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Old 9th April 2006, 12:13 PM   #10
JonFo is offline JonFo  United States
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Default Drawings for Array

Here is the rendering for this project.

Again, a sealed box with six series/ parallel connected Extremis:

Opinions or constructive criticism are all welcome.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg centerspeaker_jpg.jpg (90.8 KB, 518 views)
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