I was waiting for this to show-up on Stereophile's website:
http://stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/306monitor/
At this price for this quality you start to SERIOUSLY run-into "diminishing returns".
I'm not saying you couldn't DIY better for less.. but I am saying that it would likely be difficult to do so considering sound quality and finish work. (..and in most cases it would likely be different - not necesarily better.)
It's certainly no substitute for building loudspeakers as a hobby - BUT there are plenty of people posting and browsing here that just want really good sound for not an outrageous sum of money.. so IMO this is it. REAL VALUE.
http://stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/306monitor/
At this price for this quality you start to SERIOUSLY run-into "diminishing returns".
I'm not saying you couldn't DIY better for less.. but I am saying that it would likely be difficult to do so considering sound quality and finish work. (..and in most cases it would likely be different - not necesarily better.)
It's certainly no substitute for building loudspeakers as a hobby - BUT there are plenty of people posting and browsing here that just want really good sound for not an outrageous sum of money.. so IMO this is it. REAL VALUE.
I saw that article as well, and I'm definitely curious as to how they sound.
There's a number of really good "value" speakers, including the Infinity Intermezzo 2.6 (originally $2+k, can be found refurbed or used on audiogon for $650-700) and the Triangle speakers come to mind.
However, the thing you're missing out on here is that doing it yourself is half of the fun. Even if my gear isn't better than a lot of commercial stuff, I have a helluva good time building it, which is worth more to me than even the finished product
There's a number of really good "value" speakers, including the Infinity Intermezzo 2.6 (originally $2+k, can be found refurbed or used on audiogon for $650-700) and the Triangle speakers come to mind.
However, the thing you're missing out on here is that doing it yourself is half of the fun. Even if my gear isn't better than a lot of commercial stuff, I have a helluva good time building it, which is worth more to me than even the finished product
IMHO the US$1,000K pricepoint for floorstanders is quite good in today's age. At least from initial audition and aesthetic function.
But let's not forget that DIY is getting much cheaper and more competitive too. Madisound now have pre-built timber veneered floorstanding cabinets for sale. Some clever DIY designers can come up with a 2.5 way floorstander too- with Dayton RS150 or RS180 drivers + SEAS 27TBFCG, and that would be really something!
Competitive with other 2.5 way, top-tier series from any brand eg. Monitor Audio Gold Reference, and unbeatable in terms of price/performance ratio.
But let's not forget that DIY is getting much cheaper and more competitive too. Madisound now have pre-built timber veneered floorstanding cabinets for sale. Some clever DIY designers can come up with a 2.5 way floorstander too- with Dayton RS150 or RS180 drivers + SEAS 27TBFCG, and that would be really something!
Competitive with other 2.5 way, top-tier series from any brand eg. Monitor Audio Gold Reference, and unbeatable in terms of price/performance ratio.
motherone said:However, the thing you're missing out on here is that doing it yourself is half of the fun. Even if my gear isn't better than a lot of commercial stuff, I have a helluva good time building it, which is worth more to me than even the finished product
Oh, I'm not missing it - thats what the last paragraph was intended to convey.
The way the report is written, I wonder whether those speakers have good fidelity or just good sounding harmonics.
Some reasons not do DIY:
1. If you are really rich and can afford to try different combinations and upgrade constantly.
2. You enjoy music, but don't really care to get your paws wet.
3. You don't have a place to DIY.
Some reasons not do DIY:
1. If you are really rich and can afford to try different combinations and upgrade constantly.
2. You enjoy music, but don't really care to get your paws wet.
3. You don't have a place to DIY.
I don't like ported speakers...
I would have to hear them to judge them. Right now I'm skeptical that these speakers can deliver the bass that I want with mere 6" woofers, when my new pair of 12" woofers with 14mm xmax can barely do it.
Also, who knows if the midrange is clear or not. A lot of critically acclaimed loudspeakers have a muddy midrange that no one seems to notice until it is compared side by side with very well-designed speakers (like mine).
Didn't the Zu Cable speakers also receive critical acclaim? Those sound terrible to my ears. Hehe I love dissing bad speakers.
I would have to hear them to judge them. Right now I'm skeptical that these speakers can deliver the bass that I want with mere 6" woofers, when my new pair of 12" woofers with 14mm xmax can barely do it.
Also, who knows if the midrange is clear or not. A lot of critically acclaimed loudspeakers have a muddy midrange that no one seems to notice until it is compared side by side with very well-designed speakers (like mine).
Didn't the Zu Cable speakers also receive critical acclaim? Those sound terrible to my ears. Hehe I love dissing bad speakers.
leadbelly said:
A DIYer can simply use designs by people like Zaph, JonMarsh, Murphyblaster, MarkK, etc. I would even argue that these people know more about speaker design than a lot of professionals. When I first entered DIY speaker design, I just used these kind of designs and a dremel/screwdriver. No other tools are needed so unforeseen expenses only apply to those who are completely new to DIY in general. Most people who DIY speakers have previously had other DIY hobbies and can plan very well.
I really do beleive that DIY route is cheaper than buying commercial speakers, and also cheaper than buying used, except for those rare deals. You can also customize the sound to your own needs, and use better crossover components, even do strange things like use lightbulbs in the crossover.
Sure, if said DIYer treats it as a long term hobby. If he just wants the best kit he can afford as a one-off, IMO he will have no problem. I would put something like the Orion or some of the North Creek kits against this speaker any day, even the John Marsh's Modula MTM, some of John Krutke's designs, etc etc. He will also have the ability to easily tweak the crossover, possibly with input from the designer himself, to suit the room. And from a build quality POV, the diyer can do a FAR better job than monitor audio can at the $1000 pricepoint.
The only place our diyer is going to have a hard time matching this speaker is aesthetics. Of course, this assumes the diyer is not putting a dollar value on his time...
just crossing over from Tube DIY
In my case I had to travel the DIY route due to the fact that I like the tone of flea powered SET amps (2A3, 45, 10Y, etc)
I have bought and sold Infinity Kappa 200 (which I regret because they sounded great for HT fronts), and JBL LX2002.
I also auditioned a lot - Von Schweikert Audio, Monitor Audio (which I never liked), Consonance Eric, Coincident Truimph (I cannot afford), Dali, Wharfedale (I also don't like), KEF, Triangle Comete, Aurum Cantus, Omega, Axiom... all in my room using my gear.
In the end, I settled with an Altec 406-8Y (10") + Oxford mid-horns + Fostex FT17H.
Cheers!
ps.
and speaking of aesthetics, mine sucks But the sound, he he.
In my case I had to travel the DIY route due to the fact that I like the tone of flea powered SET amps (2A3, 45, 10Y, etc)
I have bought and sold Infinity Kappa 200 (which I regret because they sounded great for HT fronts), and JBL LX2002.
I also auditioned a lot - Von Schweikert Audio, Monitor Audio (which I never liked), Consonance Eric, Coincident Truimph (I cannot afford), Dali, Wharfedale (I also don't like), KEF, Triangle Comete, Aurum Cantus, Omega, Axiom... all in my room using my gear.
In the end, I settled with an Altec 406-8Y (10") + Oxford mid-horns + Fostex FT17H.
Cheers!
ps.
and speaking of aesthetics, mine sucks
But the sound, he he.An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
ScottG said:
Sorry for the sarcasm, but I just have to know:
Whomever purchased a copy of the magazine, please flip the page after this article and tell me there isn't a full page add for Monitor Audio on it!!
arnoldc said:
ps.
and speaking of aesthetics, mine sucks
Now THAT'S what DIY is all about. Works of art!
Mark
hey i just realized that the speaker in question has a huge 15dB breakup node past 14kHz. A huge peak centered at 20kHz... seems like an unusable speaker! The breakups can also be set off by the 2nd and 3rd order harmonics at 6kHz and 10kHz. YUCK!!!
And the front port I bet the midrange frequencies can leak out at 10 to 30ms delay... worse than room reflections. YUCK!!!
And the front port I bet the midrange frequencies can leak out at 10 to 30ms delay... worse than room reflections. YUCK!!!
Scott,
I listened to MA RS6's at the Northern Hifi Show 06 held at Manchester airport here in the UK. They were running a 5.1 setup off of Chord's new media server and a 5 channel Chord amp, all the source and amplification components summed together cost several times the price of the speakers. However, this is fairly common practice for dealers and manufacturers when demoing equipment.
I must say that I thought that it was once of the best sounding systems of the show. In comparison, the range topping B&W N801 system was coloured, althought I'm almost sure that was a side effect of the room and very poor setup.
The sound from the RS6's was very crisp, superb imaging and generally natural as hell for the money. I'm sure the £10k+ worth of partenering electronics had a hand in making them sound as well as they did but for the money and the level finish I would say that you'd be very hard pushed to beat them with an equivalent DIY design for the same budget.
Of course there is limits to just how good they do sound and in comparison to my own reference speakers they are still lacking significantly in certain area's. Not really a fair comparison though since I've spent over £6k on the Perceives if you include the DEQX crossover and the active amplification.
I'd still snap up a pair of these if I wanted maximum value for money rather than the one of the best at big budget prices. As you've already said, diminishing returns kicks in fairly quickly. I guess what really matter is what you want from a speaker and how much your willing to pay for the that. As it stands, the RS6's are likely the best value speakers on the market, I was certainly impressed with them anyway.
I listened to MA RS6's at the Northern Hifi Show 06 held at Manchester airport here in the UK. They were running a 5.1 setup off of Chord's new media server and a 5 channel Chord amp, all the source and amplification components summed together cost several times the price of the speakers. However, this is fairly common practice for dealers and manufacturers when demoing equipment.
I must say that I thought that it was once of the best sounding systems of the show. In comparison, the range topping B&W N801 system was coloured, althought I'm almost sure that was a side effect of the room and very poor setup.
The sound from the RS6's was very crisp, superb imaging and generally natural as hell for the money. I'm sure the £10k+ worth of partenering electronics had a hand in making them sound as well as they did but for the money and the level finish I would say that you'd be very hard pushed to beat them with an equivalent DIY design for the same budget.
Of course there is limits to just how good they do sound and in comparison to my own reference speakers they are still lacking significantly in certain area's. Not really a fair comparison though since I've spent over £6k on the Perceives if you include the DEQX crossover and the active amplification.
I'd still snap up a pair of these if I wanted maximum value for money rather than the one of the best at big budget prices. As you've already said, diminishing returns kicks in fairly quickly. I guess what really matter is what you want from a speaker and how much your willing to pay for the that. As it stands, the RS6's are likely the best value speakers on the market, I was certainly impressed with them anyway.
cotdt said:
Seriously these are superb speakers.
Since you haven't had the pleasure of listening to them yet, I'd probably try to avoid the 'egg on face' comments.
I know as much about DIY speakers as 99% of the folks on here, I know how to build great sound and also how to build a great looking box, I'd like to think that I can beat anything commercial for the same budget using DIY but I'd take the MA RS6's over any design that I could build for £599 and when you factor in the superb finish and zero labour required then I'd recommend these to anyone whether they DIY or not.
cotdt said:
Next thing you'll be telling us that you don't like domes or some other such stereotype.
What's with all the commercial bashing? Virtually all of us on here have owned and have been brought up on commercial stuff. To my ears some of you sound like the snobs that just won the lottery and deny that they ever lived in a semidetached.
Get real, there's commercial stuff that wipes the floor with many DIY designs and they ain't massively expensive. Personally I'd really like to see someone beat the Mackie HR626 active's for the same money including amplification, active XO's, 6 drivers, wave guide et al. Not happening any time soon let me tell you.
Someone has to stick up for the commercial stuff that is worthy and since I'm a hardened DIY fan, who better to offer an opinion
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.