Dayton Series II and Pioneer 8" fullrange idea

[prerunnerv6]

I'm looking to invest about $300 towards a DIY floor standing project. The goal is to have a speaker set that will give me a decent listening experience at home, but can be loud enough to used with my other speakers at medium sized parties. (Think along the lines of Cerwin-Vega.) I will be getting help building the cabinets.

The end impedance needs to be 8ohms. The speakers will be getting about 150watts x 2 rms at least. I want enough bass that will be enjoyable without a sub. This is for music only.

I'm considering using the Dayton Series II 12"

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=295-120

and the Pioneer 8" fullrange.Pioneer 8" Fullrange

I will use a piezo tweeter to round off the high end.

Crossover can be a simple 1st order 6db setup. X-over about 200-300 hz.

Would these drivers be able to work well together for my stated purposes? Any recommendations on how to proceed? Ported or sealed?

Thanks

[rcavictim]

Try and find a pair of 12C01P coaxials by Selenium or the 15C01P's that may still be available at PartsExpress. Place in a BR enclosure. These drivers are high efficiency 98 dB/1w, come with a built on crossover and can handle a lot of power as they are designed for pro sound applications. No foam surround to fail either. They are sometimes on sale and when they are they will meet your budget.

Good quality driver at a great price IMO. They could easily become your main party speakers and have the sensitivity to run on low power tube amps.

I have a pair of the 12's and put them in massive 50Hz front horns in my home theater. Those horns would adequately power a full sized movie theater no problem.

[prerunnerv6]

rcavictim, that seems like a great idea. I remember when PE used to carry them. The only problem is that I've been searching the Internet for them and keep coming up with zero.

So are there any other suggestions?

I will ask this...when it comes to pro audio speakers, I notice that their xmax is usually low. Won't this limit the amount of bass from the speaker, or not?

[RJ]

This link should help on that Pioneeer/Piezo idea;
http://melhuish.org/audio/DIYBX16.html

I will ask this...when it comes to pro audio speakers, I notice that their xmax is usually low. Won't this limit the amount of bass from the speaker, or not?

Not at 98db. Music only goes low to about 50hz. Sometimes lower. Hardly at 30hz. They might also be harmonics from bass instruments that go as low as 30hz. Anyways, 40hz is sub-woofer territory.

[prerunnerv6]

RJ,

Thanks for the link. That's exactly what I want to do. But, I would like to take that concept and add a stong 12 or maybe 15 inch driver to it, into one enclosure. I'm need just enough to live without a sub. (I'm leaning toward the 12" due to a smaller size. I'm willing to go ported for greater output.)

I need a compromise between SPL and SQ. These speakers will not be playing by themselves. I have two 2-way 10" speakers that are pole mounted. So this new system will have some help.

As a comparison, I want to build something that will AT LEAST compare to the Cerwin-Vega LS or new E line...3-way towers. The CV's were a compromise betweeen hi-fi and pa (if needed).

Any further suggestions or input? Thanks.

[RJ]

Too bad it's got to be 8 ohms. These are on sale at PE of which I'm ordering 2 today to make my own Cerwin Vega clones;

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=299-395

The 8 ohm version;
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...number=290-410

Has a higher Qts which means a bigger box....

[prerunnerv6]

RJ, what's your plan for the CV clone?

[acoustixman]

Originally posted by prerunnerv6
I will ask this...when it comes to pro audio speakers, I notice that their xmax is usually low. Won't this limit the amount of bass from the speaker, or not?

At low frequency the coil can get tossed through the gap at low frequency easily enough, but there will be some compressive distortion as the field is attenuated at high excursions (twice each cycle). This is probably even-order or tube-like distortion, though I have never studied it quantitatively. If this is truly the case, the distortion is of a "musical" nature (not to be praising distortion, but it's not like cone breakup).

The bigger problem I see is with useful upper bandwidth being reduced by intermodulation. While the coil is out-of-gap during bass excursions, it cannot provide reproduction of superposed high frequency information, except in the highly compressed (attenuated) form. This can be seen experimentally as a muting effect if you use your fingers to displace a woofer during playback. You can feel it stop making any effort at all when you've pushed it far enough in. (This is not orthodox treatment of speakers and not a recommended practice.)

While I am a great proponent of transient response (infinite baffle), the 4th order alignments [generally] maintain minimal coil excursion as Helmholtz resonators, but intermodulation may be as well reduced by low crossover points. I would say low-Xmax dictates low demanded bandwidth or reduced SPL; not necessarily bad...

Happy listening!

[RJ]

The tweeter driver & lens;

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=264-235
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=270-310

The 8" Mid
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=299-384

And the 15";
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=299-395

Until I get the drivers and box built I will then figure out the crossover.
Right now it looks like 500 and 1800 hz.

Also, the box will look like a Marshall amp.
I'm going to buy this bag;
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product?sku=549350

Cut out the amp and logo and glue it to 1/4" board and spray with polyurethane. Two l-pads will be placed on the amp part and the logo will be glued to the driver box.

The box looks to be 4 or 4.5 cu. ft and tuned to 55 hz.
This'll put a little bump at 65 hz to give kick drums and bass guitars in Rock & Roll a good push. This'll sacrifice some lower bass which isn't really prevalent in Rock recordings. in fact, a lot of my rock collection that part of the frequency range is compressed by sound engineers.

Cheers.........

[RJ]

The Box!!!





18Wx42Hx14D so far and maybe two ports...

Oh Yeah, gotta find a couple number 11 labels and glue them to the volume knob!!!