so, with this months paycheck ill be looking at building a 2.1 / 2.2 sub sat system for the new house, WAF factors say it cant be a large or even medium sized system so looking at comercialy available systems available i keep looking at 3 systems, castle compact, quad L-ite and MA R90's all of these have a great WAF apeal, shes said she like them 
so in diy audio style i want to make my own of similar proportions.
so to start with ill need to find suitable 4" drivers ive found a few but i am here asking for your comments and suggestions for the best sounding 4" driver available for around the £80 each mark.
next up are the tweets, ideas in the £20 - £30 mark?
the electronics such as the crossover amplifier and DAC are to be made in a 2 box setup, 1 for the power supply and one for the processing stage and amp stage, the amp im pretty settled on a gainclone. but for now i want to concerntrate on the enclosure and driver choice.
thanks for any help.
Stu.
so in diy audio style i want to make my own of similar proportions.so to start with ill need to find suitable 4" drivers ive found a few but i am here asking for your comments and suggestions for the best sounding 4" driver available for around the £80 each mark.
next up are the tweets, ideas in the £20 - £30 mark?
the electronics such as the crossover amplifier and DAC are to be made in a 2 box setup, 1 for the power supply and one for the processing stage and amp stage, the amp im pretty settled on a gainclone. but for now i want to concerntrate on the enclosure and driver choice.
thanks for any help.
Stu.
Fostex FE103E 4" Full Range at Madisound
Shielded version of above driver, FE107E at Madisound.
Most would say you won't need a tweeter with these since they have pretty decent on axis response all the way up to 20kHz, but I'm determined to make a smallish bass reflex design using the 103E and a tweeter. You can check out my ramblings here if you'd like.
There are also other nice full range drivers from Jordan or Creative Sound Solutions you could look into. Maybe checking out the full range forum would help give you an idea of what else is out there.
Shielded version of above driver, FE107E at Madisound.
Most would say you won't need a tweeter with these since they have pretty decent on axis response all the way up to 20kHz, but I'm determined to make a smallish bass reflex design using the 103E and a tweeter. You can check out my ramblings here if you'd like.
There are also other nice full range drivers from Jordan or Creative Sound Solutions you could look into. Maybe checking out the full range forum would help give you an idea of what else is out there.
I can reccommend the Morel MW114, 4.5" midbass if you want to go mid and tweet, BUT I would be looking at fullrange drivers if you will be running a sub, the cash you save from not having to build a Xover means you can look at really good full range drivers.
The CSS 4.5" rullrange driver from www.madaboutsound.co.uk in the uk, £50ea last time I looked
or
the Jordan JX92 aluminium cones full range driver, I think the come in at about £180 a pair, a bit more expensive but if you was looking at £80+£30 for your two drivers its still effectively under budget. www.ejjordan.co.uk.
For the Fostex, www.wilmslowaudio.co.uk are the UK dealers.
The CSS 4.5" rullrange driver from www.madaboutsound.co.uk in the uk, £50ea last time I looked
or
the Jordan JX92 aluminium cones full range driver, I think the come in at about £180 a pair, a bit more expensive but if you was looking at £80+£30 for your two drivers its still effectively under budget. www.ejjordan.co.uk.
For the Fostex, www.wilmslowaudio.co.uk are the UK dealers.
been having a play around in win isd with a few drivers and have seen a few lil things.
firstly... the fr125 from css
great looking driver and has had great reviews however, either i must have inputted the data wrong or does this driver realy need a 40L enclosure for a sealed setup?!? and a 69L enclosure for a vented box?!? seems insane.
jordan 92s
for a start its fullrange so a reasonably cheap option. ( tweet and crossover not needed) looking pretty good, still pretty needy on volume.
morel MW114s
at the moment the closest match to what i need. great responce all the way down to 60hz and very flat. any ideas on a tweet to match with it? somthing in the £30 mark as stated before
any other suggestions?
stu
firstly... the fr125 from css
great looking driver and has had great reviews however, either i must have inputted the data wrong or does this driver realy need a 40L enclosure for a sealed setup?!? and a 69L enclosure for a vented box?!? seems insane.
jordan 92s
for a start its fullrange so a reasonably cheap option. ( tweet and crossover not needed) looking pretty good, still pretty needy on volume.
morel MW114s
at the moment the closest match to what i need. great responce all the way down to 60hz and very flat. any ideas on a tweet to match with it? somthing in the £30 mark as stated before
any other suggestions?
stu
If you are concerned with accuracy and transparency, I would suggest two Seas drivers: http://www.seas.co.uk/acatalog/H1207.pdf and
http://www.seas.no/seas_line/tweeters/H1212.pdf (Seas UK has bad link for this driver)
xo @ 1.5k.
You made no mention of magnetic shielding. The closest thing I could find to a kit using these drivers was http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1815.1/
which unfortunately is an MTM.
A simple 2 way with those drivers will give you a very high price/performance ratio within your budget IMHO.
The revealing nature of these drivers are disliked by those who would prefer a glossed over, dampened and smoothened out (or unsmoothened in the case of the fullrange driver) version of whats actually there on the recording. It's not for everyone.
If you would prefer the speaker give you all thats there, rather than a creamy interpretation, these might be just your thing.
Cheers,
AJ
prices available here: http://www.seas.co.uk/acatalog/index.html
http://www.seas.no/seas_line/tweeters/H1212.pdf (Seas UK has bad link for this driver)
xo @ 1.5k.
You made no mention of magnetic shielding. The closest thing I could find to a kit using these drivers was http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/article/1815.1/
which unfortunately is an MTM.
A simple 2 way with those drivers will give you a very high price/performance ratio within your budget IMHO.
The revealing nature of these drivers are disliked by those who would prefer a glossed over, dampened and smoothened out (or unsmoothened in the case of the fullrange driver) version of whats actually there on the recording. It's not for everyone.
If you would prefer the speaker give you all thats there, rather than a creamy interpretation, these might be just your thing.
Cheers,
AJ
prices available here: http://www.seas.co.uk/acatalog/index.html
You could go with the Seas CA12 and build a clone of the Proac Tablette, you would want a Vifa DX25 tweet to match.
Have a look on www.humblehomemadehifi.com for some nice designs with the little Seas alu cone driver (HATT range)
The FR125 plans are available on the creative sound solutions site and there is plenty of stuff in the full range section here.
Have a look on www.humblehomemadehifi.com for some nice designs with the little Seas alu cone driver (HATT range)
The FR125 plans are available on the creative sound solutions site and there is plenty of stuff in the full range section here.
stuman69er said:been having a play around in win isd with a few drivers and have seen a few lil things.
firstly... the fr125 from css
great looking driver and has had great reviews however, either i must have inputted the data wrong or does this driver realy need a 40L enclosure for a sealed setup?!? and a 69L enclosure for a vented box?!? seems insane.
jordan 92s
for a start its fullrange so a reasonably cheap option. ( tweet and crossover not needed) looking pretty good, still pretty needy on volume.
morel MW114s
at the moment the closest match to what i need. great responce all the way down to 60hz and very flat. any ideas on a tweet to match with it? somthing in the £30 mark as stated before
any other suggestions?
stu
although it will cost more, consider Jim Griffin's Jordan 92's w/ ribbon - its what your looking for (..only much better at a modest increase in price). Try doing a search here for more information - and you can always "ping" Jim himself on the forum, he is a member here.
stuman69er said:
FR/WR125 require a 4 litre (aperiodic) up to 12-14 litre sealed or ported. I haven't built the aperiodic boxes yet, but have lived with some very good 13 l ported (miniOnkens) or 12 l sealed (bibolar bipoles)
There are lots of examples in the box library page at the planet10-hifi link below.
dave
www.zaphaudio.com
look at the hivi full range on this site. I built the Tangband full range that was popular before it and it was quite good. Don't be put off by the very low price of the driver.
You could also build the tangband full range on the same site. I think the plans are still on his site. Everyone that has ever seen mine thought they were extremely cool. They're quite tiny too.
I saw a two way with the Dayton rs125 but I dont remember where. If you can find one you'd have a tough time getting better performance for anywhere near the price. Ill post a link if i find it.
look at the hivi full range on this site. I built the Tangband full range that was popular before it and it was quite good. Don't be put off by the very low price of the driver.
You could also build the tangband full range on the same site. I think the plans are still on his site. Everyone that has ever seen mine thought they were extremely cool. They're quite tiny too.
I saw a two way with the Dayton rs125 but I dont remember where. If you can find one you'd have a tough time getting better performance for anywhere near the price. Ill post a link if i find it.
found it
http://www.rjbaudio.com/Microbe/microbe.html
Looks great too.
edit:looking at the site further I see there is also a microbe se with a seas tweeter. Go to the projects page and check them all out. lots of interesting things.
http://www.rjbaudio.com/Microbe/microbe.html
Looks great too.
edit:looking at the site further I see there is also a microbe se with a seas tweeter. Go to the projects page and check them all out. lots of interesting things.
ok, bit of an update, got some unexpected bills drop through the door this morning so budget has dropped to just about to allow me to use a pair of fr125's so the plan has now changed to super slim floorstanders. will post the plans when i get them drawn.
on a bit of a side note, any ideas on how much a cabinate maker or engineering firm charge to cut MDF? i have no tools and no space aswell as no skills. im sure i can handel the glueing but need the cutting done.
pics of the build process will be included when construction starts
cheers again.
stu
on a bit of a side note, any ideas on how much a cabinate maker or engineering firm charge to cut MDF? i have no tools and no space aswell as no skills. im sure i can handel the glueing but need the cutting done.
pics of the build process will be included when construction starts
cheers again.
stu
getting custom mill work could be expensive. I lucked out once and found a lumber yard that offered to do it and deliver for free but that was a lucky find.
Heres a trick you could try though. All you'll need is a jigsaw, which can be bought cheap, a drill, some glue, and a screw driver. Try to find some narrow MDF shelving or have a lumber place rip a wider one into two narrow pieces. Calculate the hieght needed to give you the correct interior volume and cut to appropriate length. Youll only need to make a few cuts this way and you could do a servicable job with a jigsaw. With the fron and rear baffles overlapping the sides you will have a good rectangular interior shape. Now you just need to worry about the top, bottom and cutouts. Jigsaw for top and bottom. Make the bottom slightly large for a stable base. Use a jigsaw to cut the driver cutouts. To avoid having to use a router to flushmount the drivers, look for a driver that has a rounded face plate. GR research m130 is probably your best bet. Good driver and not too large.
Check out www.murphyblaster.com for an excellent design using this driver and intended to not be flushmounted.
Other options:
-buy a cabinet from partsexpress or similar
-buy a kit such as grresearch. lots of others.
if you want to learn do it yourself. if you just want a good speaker on the cheap buy a kit.
good luck
Heres a trick you could try though. All you'll need is a jigsaw, which can be bought cheap, a drill, some glue, and a screw driver. Try to find some narrow MDF shelving or have a lumber place rip a wider one into two narrow pieces. Calculate the hieght needed to give you the correct interior volume and cut to appropriate length. Youll only need to make a few cuts this way and you could do a servicable job with a jigsaw. With the fron and rear baffles overlapping the sides you will have a good rectangular interior shape. Now you just need to worry about the top, bottom and cutouts. Jigsaw for top and bottom. Make the bottom slightly large for a stable base. Use a jigsaw to cut the driver cutouts. To avoid having to use a router to flushmount the drivers, look for a driver that has a rounded face plate. GR research m130 is probably your best bet. Good driver and not too large.
Check out www.murphyblaster.com for an excellent design using this driver and intended to not be flushmounted.
Other options:
-buy a cabinet from partsexpress or similar
-buy a kit such as grresearch. lots of others.
if you want to learn do it yourself. if you just want a good speaker on the cheap buy a kit.
good luck
Hi,
I'd be inclined to have a go with the FR125S too, especially after all the good things I've heard about it. Very presentable too. I like Fostex's, but unless you go for Sigma's I don't think they look as nice for the WAF. The only downer I can see is sensitivity but this may not be an issue for you, and you get 6mm xmax with the FR125S! Has to be a good thing if you driving them subless and crossoverless.
Good Luck!!
Steve
I'd be inclined to have a go with the FR125S too, especially after all the good things I've heard about it. Very presentable too. I like Fostex's, but unless you go for Sigma's I don't think they look as nice for the WAF. The only downer I can see is sensitivity but this may not be an issue for you, and you get 6mm xmax with the FR125S! Has to be a good thing if you driving them subless and crossoverless.
Good Luck!!
Steve
My local Homebase has a cutting service. They have a large wall mounted saw and I just hand over the dimensions and they cut while you wait. From memory, the first eight cuts are free, after that it's officially 50p per cut, although they've never charged me despite asking for 15+ cuts from a 8 x 4ft sheet!
I think the B+Q on Fleets Lane, Poole offers a similar service.
EDIT: I've just checked on the B+Q website, and they do offer a timber cutting sevice. So hooray for me, then.
Nice one,
David.
daatkins said:
cheers daa, sounds good to me, just need to work out a way to get the speaker mounting holes cut and routed, i dont own a drill or router so its a bit a a pain. any ideas? i think most i can manage at the mo is gluing and finishing.
another note, this design will have quite a large area for mass loading, was thinking on concrete or plaster of paris good idea?
also, how much bracing would be a good amount? as much as possible?
and are there any differances with having the port front facing? does the timing and phase alignent shift?
cheers. stu
well there's your solution. Follow the link to Planet 10s commercial site and check out the enclosures. You can get the whole nine yards through him i think.
You have to be a bit careful about getting big retailers to make cuts for you. You will often not get the accuracy you need. I once had a lumber yard cut some MDF for me and it had a one inch curve over four feet.
Find a way to assemble the box with the smallest number of cuts possible. less chance to screw up the size of the pieces. Thats why i made the suggestion of shelving since its already milled straight.
I really think your best bet is to buy a pre cut enclosure. You can get it flat packed and assemlbe it your self if you really want to
You have to be a bit careful about getting big retailers to make cuts for you. You will often not get the accuracy you need. I once had a lumber yard cut some MDF for me and it had a one inch curve over four feet.
Find a way to assemble the box with the smallest number of cuts possible. less chance to screw up the size of the pieces. Thats why i made the suggestion of shelving since its already milled straight.
I really think your best bet is to buy a pre cut enclosure. You can get it flat packed and assemlbe it your self if you really want to
check out the tower bipoles on Dave's site
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/sealed.html
extrodinarily handsome
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/sealed.html
extrodinarily handsome
kifeinthesink said:
You could, but i don't think it is really practical to ship an entire speaker from here outside of North America (i priced shipping to Oz, and it was as much or more than the speakers) -- it would be better to find a local builder. A plywood baffle is a doable thing thou.
dave
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