richard_majer said:
Well the 1st step might be to do some measurements and try to validate the "gap" in the bass. I expect that if you do you will find that there is no such gap, but rather it's a room effect of some type or your electronics don't match up well with the speakers. It happens and it has nothing to do with quality .
I base this guess on the revews I've read over the years. I do not remember anyone else complaining of this. I do remember some complaining that they were sensitive to placement.
Are the speakers spiked to the floor? You could add weight to them. When experimenting I often just place steel plates from my weight lifting set on top of the boxes. Makes quite a diff sometimes.
I realize you are looking to build but first you need to identify the problem.
You could experiment with turning them into a dipole. If you are going to build a new box then it's an opportunity to experiment with the old box.
You could remove the cross over and replace it with an electronic xover and bi-amp them. It would give you more control and allow you to fine tune them to your tastes.
I dunno, you could do most anything with them. One way would be to look at other speakers in the companies lineup that use the same drivers and read reviews on them.
Hi richard_mayer,
If you like experimentate your ability/possibility with x-overs,
I have thinked this:
Take a inexpensive Dayton RS52AN and put it in the place of the t330
( i am not sure the mounting hole is sufficient wide and probabily the
dayton's flange also need "to accomodate")
Then place the T330 in a little box/ panel on the top.
Now you can try all the filters you want.
If the experimentation will be very good you can go with total
DIY project also more complicated ( 3+sub, 4, etc.).
Cheers,
Inertial
If you like experimentate your ability/possibility with x-overs,
I have thinked this:
Take a inexpensive Dayton RS52AN and put it in the place of the t330
( i am not sure the mounting hole is sufficient wide and probabily the
dayton's flange also need "to accomodate")
Then place the T330 in a little box/ panel on the top.
Now you can try all the filters you want.
If the experimentation will be very good you can go with total
DIY project also more complicated ( 3+sub, 4, etc.).
Cheers,
Inertial
Thank you for suggestions. I placed them in third place in my living room and there is still "something" missing :-( The worst experience was at one meeting with other HiFi fan and I took my speakers. We compared them with Visaton floorstanding speakers (2way) and bass was for first feeling stronger and Dynaudio was judged as looser... (amp DPA. You can look for data in this forum Author of this amp is Upupa Epops.)
This is creating my lookig for something new...
Thsi speaker is in www.egglestonworks.com. I like them, but problem is again with speakers (exept one model, using only Morel bass. But I have no idea about box construction including crossover :-(
But I can try to design new crossover for existing box. If you have any advice here, all suggestions/schematic are wellcome
And additional point, I use amp, which is "home made". Initial was A75 from Pass, but due to poor sound and bad stability (DC voltage at output) I made with friend of my redesign. You can se it:
http://www.majerovi.com/richard/A75/A75.htm original one and after... http://petrh.org/phd75.asp
This is creating my lookig for something new...
Thsi speaker is in www.egglestonworks.com. I like them, but problem is again with speakers (exept one model, using only Morel bass. But I have no idea about box construction including crossover :-(
But I can try to design new crossover for existing box. If you have any advice here, all suggestions/schematic are wellcome
And additional point, I use amp, which is "home made". Initial was A75 from Pass, but due to poor sound and bad stability (DC voltage at output) I made with friend of my redesign. You can se it:
http://www.majerovi.com/richard/A75/A75.htm original one and after... http://petrh.org/phd75.asp
How about using AudioTechnology drivers?
Hi Richard
Have you considered using AudioTechnology drivers? Either some of the C-Quenze range, or some Flexunits. With the Flexunits you can design you own drivers, and they offer a wider range (from 4" to 15"). They are designed by someone who used to work for Dynaudio and should be an excellent sonic match, especially if you tell them what you want to use them for. A pair of Flexunits 4 H 52 06 13 (4" mid) with a pair of Flexunits 15 E 102 25 10 (15" bass) and you have the makes of an incredible speaker, if properly designed (good drivers do not necessarily mean a good speaker). On issues as that I cannot help you, and you will be better off consulting some of the real gurus on this forum. Here is their webite:
AudioTechnology
Enjoy,
Deon
Hi Richard
Have you considered using AudioTechnology drivers? Either some of the C-Quenze range, or some Flexunits. With the Flexunits you can design you own drivers, and they offer a wider range (from 4" to 15"). They are designed by someone who used to work for Dynaudio and should be an excellent sonic match, especially if you tell them what you want to use them for. A pair of Flexunits 4 H 52 06 13 (4" mid) with a pair of Flexunits 15 E 102 25 10 (15" bass) and you have the makes of an incredible speaker, if properly designed (good drivers do not necessarily mean a good speaker). On issues as that I cannot help you, and you will be better off consulting some of the real gurus on this forum.
Here is their webite:AudioTechnology
Enjoy,
Deon
Hi Richard,
about the woofer of your 2.8, is it the 20W75 Esotec? 4 or 8 ohm version?
I do not have a test-magazine of the 2.8 but I believe it has a smooth acoustical second order or something of similar. Probabily a different approch can be an alternative sonic signature.
Without the individual responses of the two raw drivers in the 2.8 box
is not easy make a decent filter.
Do you have a kind friend with a CLIO system?
I think a 4th filter a la "orion" could be an interesting result in your particular situation.
Cheers,
Inertial
about the woofer of your 2.8, is it the 20W75 Esotec? 4 or 8 ohm version?
I do not have a test-magazine of the 2.8 but I believe it has a smooth acoustical second order or something of similar. Probabily a different approch can be an alternative sonic signature.
Without the individual responses of the two raw drivers in the 2.8 box
is not easy make a decent filter.
Do you have a kind friend with a CLIO system?
I think a 4th filter a la "orion" could be an interesting result in your particular situation.
Cheers,
Inertial
To DeonC: AudioTechnology drivers are far above my budget :-( I have to "dream" about different drivers.
To inertial: They are 4ohm. I don't understand what do you mean by smooth acoustical second as well as alternative sonic signature... can you please better describe... Thank you
What is Clio system?
I used first time SW for box design. 20W75 with bassreflex can work 30Hz -3dB in existing box with bassreflex 6,8cm diameter and 13,5cm length (used WinISD 0,44)
This is easiest modification I can do
To inertial: They are 4ohm. I don't understand what do you mean by smooth acoustical second as well as alternative sonic signature... can you please better describe... Thank you
What is Clio system?
I used first time SW for box design. 20W75 with bassreflex can work 30Hz -3dB in existing box with bassreflex 6,8cm diameter and 13,5cm length (used WinISD 0,44)
This is easiest modification I can do
Well Richard,
excuse for my bad english. I said that Dynaudio's original x-over
90% is an acoustical 2th order 2500-3000Hz . If you want a different
sonic thimbre you can try a different x-over. For example a 4th order
1500-1700Hz . Note I said different not better/worst; it's depend from your taste.
Clio is a measuring system for loudspeakers / drive units.
It is foundmental to have the SPL versus frequency of the two drivers
mounted in the box without filters. After you can put the curves in your simulator and obtain your target response you want.
I hope this is clear and can help you.
Regards,
Inertial
excuse for my bad english. I said that Dynaudio's original x-over
90% is an acoustical 2th order 2500-3000Hz . If you want a different
sonic thimbre you can try a different x-over. For example a 4th order
1500-1700Hz . Note I said different not better/worst; it's depend from your taste.
Clio is a measuring system for loudspeakers / drive units.
It is foundmental to have the SPL versus frequency of the two drivers
mounted in the box without filters. After you can put the curves in your simulator and obtain your target response you want.
I hope this is clear and can help you.
Regards,
Inertial
Richard,
1650 what?
You are talking about electrical filter ( wrong the same).
The natural roll/on of the tweeter mounted in that little baffle summed
with the electrical filtering give you MINIMUM a second order total transfer function.
I have presumed about 2500Hz minimun, because sometimes the
filter is asymmetric and this can confuse the valutation of the exact
crossover point.
I will be very surprise IF, graphics on hands, someone can show a true first order behaviour for these speakers.
Never say never...
Inertial
1650 what?
You are talking about electrical filter ( wrong the same).
The natural roll/on of the tweeter mounted in that little baffle summed
with the electrical filtering give you MINIMUM a second order total transfer function.
I have presumed about 2500Hz minimun, because sometimes the
filter is asymmetric and this can confuse the valutation of the exact
crossover point.
I will be very surprise IF, graphics on hands, someone can show a true first order behaviour for these speakers.
Never say never...
Inertial
Richard
It's a shame you are not in the UK, I am just about to put on Ebay a pair if cabinets which were professionally made for Dynaudio Esotar T330 and a Volt BM2500.4 ( www.voltloudspeakers.co.uk )
They were used as an active design and the tweeter was the best 'dome' type I ever heard.
I used a crossover set at 1500Hz and 2nd order Bessel which sounded just fine.
The cabinets are floorstanders with the bass enclosure at about 40 litres and loaded with two 70mm reflex ports. The tweeters are in their own separate recesses. The cabs are nicely finished in Cherry wood veneer and the connections are Neutrik Speakons mounted up through the base of the cabinet which sits on long adjustable spikes.
One last thing about the cabinets is that they were made from laminated panels of MDF-Lead(2mm thick)-MDF and so they weigh about 75kg without drivers!!
Whatever you do with the Esotars will sound great
Good luck
John (acousticimagery)
PS any Brits interested in the cabs? I'm looking for about £150 to send to a good home.
It's a shame you are not in the UK, I am just about to put on Ebay a pair if cabinets which were professionally made for Dynaudio Esotar T330 and a Volt BM2500.4 ( www.voltloudspeakers.co.uk )
They were used as an active design and the tweeter was the best 'dome' type I ever heard.
I used a crossover set at 1500Hz and 2nd order Bessel which sounded just fine.
The cabinets are floorstanders with the bass enclosure at about 40 litres and loaded with two 70mm reflex ports. The tweeters are in their own separate recesses. The cabs are nicely finished in Cherry wood veneer and the connections are Neutrik Speakons mounted up through the base of the cabinet which sits on long adjustable spikes.
One last thing about the cabinets is that they were made from laminated panels of MDF-Lead(2mm thick)-MDF and so they weigh about 75kg without drivers!!
Whatever you do with the Esotars will sound great
Good luck
John (acousticimagery)
PS any Brits interested in the cabs? I'm looking for about £150 to send to a good home.
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