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Old 11th February 2006, 07:29 AM   #1
peteS is offline peteS  United States
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Exclamation narrowing down my speaker choices... opinions needed

this is for a home stereo set up
need opinions on tweeter and mids

pre-existing equipment:
denon 2910

rotel rc-1070 preamp

rotel 2 channel rb-1080

i plan on purchasing rane 31 band eq(s) and threeway x/o, as that is what has been suggested

i will hopefully add a 500x2 and probably a small amp (possibly tube) for the tweets (no idea on woofers yet)


here is what im looking at:

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...10972&pid=1890

this seems to bee a good choice but may need to be x/o at around 3k
from what ive read

hence a 5.5" may be a better choice than a 6.5-7" (correct?)

here is what im considering,

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...24500&pid=1939

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...24500&pid=1917

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...24500&pid=1948


great disparity in prices, so input is needed

will be implemented as a pair per speaker either as TL's or dipolar

opinions on anything mentioned is appreciated!
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Old 11th February 2006, 05:33 PM   #2
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Before going with a ribbon tweet you might want to look at these comparisons:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/nondomes/

http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/

And for woofers:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/6.5test/

Just some good objective comparisons. You might want to look at some of his speaker designs too.

Some more info on your total budget, room size, listening preferences etc. would help others to give more focused advice. Certainly looks like you're on a good track though - my compliments on your tastes!
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Old 11th February 2006, 10:19 PM   #3
cotdt is offline cotdt  United States
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Go for ribbon tweets anyway. In the measurements, people tend to look at low frequency performance, when ribbons are designed to be crossed over higher than domes. A lot better than domes for >10kHz material, to my ears. Cross over high, even if the ribbons claim to do lower.

For mids, I recommend a paper/semirigid cone. There are many to choose from. They sound more natural than rigid cones. If using ribbons, get a 5.5" or smaller so they can cross high without beaming. For the woofer definately go for rigid cones.

For amp, don't go for tubes now that ClassD can deliver the best from tubes and the best from solid state (Class A), and better resolution than both. I personally love the Tripaths, but others say UcD is even better. I have a 41hz AMP5 (60W into 8ohms, 200W bridged), and I love it.
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Old 12th February 2006, 01:56 AM   #4
peteS is offline peteS  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by sdclc126
Before going with a ribbon tweet you might want to look at these comparisons:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/nondomes/

http://www.zaphaudio.com/tweetermishmash/

And for woofers:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/6.5test/

Just some good objective comparisons. You might want to look at some of his speaker designs too.

Some more info on your total budget, room size, listening preferences etc. would help others to give more focused advice. Certainly looks like you're on a good track though - my compliments on your tastes!
i am familiar with those choices, as a result i went am leaning towards the founteks over the aurum cantus... it seems there will never be a consensus on which tweeter is best... i have very limited exposure but as far as dome tweeters go i prefer large diameter low Fs
i have heard the martin logan electrostats and am in love... hence my assumption was that a ribbon will be simmilar

Quote:
Originally posted by cotdt
Go for ribbon tweets anyway. In the measurements, people tend to look at low frequency performance, when ribbons are designed to be crossed over higher than domes. A lot better than domes for >10kHz material, to my ears. Cross over high, even if the ribbons claim to do lower.

For mids, I recommend a paper/semirigid cone. There are many to choose from. They sound more natural than rigid cones. If using ribbons, get a 5.5" or smaller so they can cross high without beaming. For the woofer definately go for rigid cones.

For amp, don't go for tubes now that ClassD can deliver the best from tubes and the best from solid state (Class A), and better resolution than both. I personally love the Tripaths, but others say UcD is even better. I have a 41hz AMP5 (60W into 8ohms, 200W bridged), and I love it.
i have read some posts that alude to issues w/ crossing ribbons higher, but did not specify why this was problematic...any ideas?

it seems that the founteks do well on waterfall and distortion graphs in the higher octives...

my concern w/ going smaller than 5.5" is its ability to extend to 250hz... is this already too low? the woofers i plan on useing will probably be rather high Le (higher xmax) so i need some ideas here
what are some specific drivers that are not as rigid one would recomend?


full range class d is not something i am ready for-lol
i just felt the flat impedence and high sensitivity of the ribbons pressented a perfect opertunity for a tube amp
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Old 12th February 2006, 01:56 AM   #5
peteS is offline peteS  United States
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also worth noting that i have been thouroghly talked out of the rane equipment and into behringer dsp's
now the dealer i purchased the rotels from scoffed at the idea of behringer, belittling me for even suggesting it, and suggested rane, two co-workers of mine that have schooling and have worked in proaudio also scoffed at the idea of behrenger
the online forums seem to be in consensus that behrenger is the way to go
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Old 12th February 2006, 02:48 AM   #6
cotdt is offline cotdt  United States
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Oh I thought you were doing a three-way? Are you?

As for the crossovers, sound-quality wise they are all about the same, even the cheaper analogue crossovers. The difference is in features in my opinion. Modded behringers get very good reviews however. I used to have the DCX2496 crossover (sold it) and it had problems with intrument separation (and voice separation when there are multiple voices in a song) compared to my passives, but maybe the modded ones don't have the same problem I don't know. I use a passive 2-way for midwoofer/tweeter and an active crossover for the subwoofer. But my next DIY speaker will definately be a true 3-way so that I can use a dedicated mid driver (Accuton C90-T6, Vifa XG18, and PHL come to mind). I will still have passive mid/tweeter and active bass.
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Old 12th February 2006, 06:47 AM   #7
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If your potential budget includes those mids you have to also consider the Jordan JX92... or for that matter the Fostex FE108ES. Probably worth throwing the CSS WR/FR125S in there too. Both would certainly give a lot of flexibility as to where to XO the tweeter.

and why would you ruin what has the potential to be a great systm with an eq?

dave
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Old 12th February 2006, 08:14 PM   #8
andy2 is offline andy2  United States
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Will you be designing your own xovers?

I had a chance to build a mini-monitor using Exel W15 and it sounds really good. I didn't design them myself but use Troels design.

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/W15_OWI.htm
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Old 12th February 2006, 11:57 PM   #9
peteS is offline peteS  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by cotdt
Oh I thought you were doing a three-way? Are you?

As for the crossovers, sound-quality wise they are all about the same, even the cheaper analogue crossovers. The difference is in features in my opinion. Modded behringers get very good reviews however. I used to have the DCX2496 crossover (sold it) and it had problems with intrument separation (and voice separation when there are multiple voices in a song) compared to my passives, but maybe the modded ones don't have the same problem I don't know. I use a passive 2-way for midwoofer/tweeter and an active crossover for the subwoofer. But my next DIY speaker will definately be a true 3-way so that I can use a dedicated mid driver (Accuton C90-T6, Vifa XG18, and PHL come to mind). I will still have passive mid/tweeter and active bass.
i dont have the knowledge at this point to mod the behrengers, so unless there is a step by step tutorial id have to use them as is- hence i am somewhat aprehensive
im willing to consider passives but have been thouroghly talked out of it on a few occasions....

i am moving soon and will be moving again shortly there after so designing passives to suit my rooms acoustics is not feasable.... active has the advantage there, pluss an active setup allows me to make minor adjustments as i learn more

yes they will be threeway so i know enough to know that threeway networks would be too challenging for me
i am just not concerned w/ the sub at this point due to budget limitations, the diameter of them will be dictated by how low my midrange will extend anyways

Quote:
Originally posted by planet10
If your potential budget includes those mids you have to also consider the Jordan JX92... or for that matter the Fostex FE108ES. Probably worth throwing the CSS WR/FR125S in there too. Both would certainly give a lot of flexibility as to where to XO the tweeter.

and why would you ruin what has the potential to be a great systm with an eq?

dave
was not able to find any info on the jordan... the fostex is out because i dont like the color lol..... havent heard much about creative sounds... definately like the aesthetics of it

some advice i was given is to focus on a semi rgid or paper coned mid as they have a better subjective sound quality and avoid resonances some of the metal coned mids have... opinions on that?

as for active vs passive, in addition to the previously stated reasons, i dont have the experience to make a sufficient one right away.... there tends to be strong opinions on both sides for this, as ive been asked "why would you wanna go passive w/ a high end setup" also-lol
Quote:
Originally posted by andy2
Will you be designing your own xovers?

I had a chance to build a mini-monitor using Exel W15 and it sounds really good. I didn't design them myself but use Troels design.

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/W15_OWI.htm
yes that is a problem, i am not proficient enough to build my own passives, hence active looks like a better option, but i will bookmark that link
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Old 14th February 2006, 03:46 AM   #10
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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The Veravox 5 is small and has reasonable sensitivity (93). What about combining it with an Aurum Cantus G2 (and high crossover)?
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