Is Jon Risch right?
His long article in three parts: www.geocities.com/jonrisch/s1.htm
In part 2: www.geocities.com/jonrisch/s2.htm
. . scroll down to: “Cable #1 - Highest Audio Performance”
he advocates coaxial Belden 89259,
*“cross-connected” as explained there & illustrated in these “views”:
www.geocities.com/jonrisch/page2.htm
www.geocities.com/jonrisch/spkrcbl1.htm
Yes there’s the placebo effect, but does anyone have better suggestions?
BTW:
He says “a 100 foot spool of 89259, cut in half twice(?) allows up to a pair of approx. 24 foot speaker cables”
Forgive my oversight, but with +ve and –ve, wouldn’t 100 foot of cable yield about *50 feet of speaker cables?
Cheers
His long article in three parts: www.geocities.com/jonrisch/s1.htm
In part 2: www.geocities.com/jonrisch/s2.htm
. . scroll down to: “Cable #1 - Highest Audio Performance”
he advocates coaxial Belden 89259,
*“cross-connected” as explained there & illustrated in these “views”:
www.geocities.com/jonrisch/page2.htm
www.geocities.com/jonrisch/spkrcbl1.htm
Yes there’s the placebo effect, but does anyone have better suggestions?
BTW:
He says “a 100 foot spool of 89259, cut in half twice(?) allows up to a pair of approx. 24 foot speaker cables”
Forgive my oversight, but with +ve and –ve, wouldn’t 100 foot of cable yield about *50 feet of speaker cables?
Cheers
Each speaker cable is comprised of two pieces of coax. Two speaker cables times 2 pieces of coax EACH. That's four.
Hangin' out at cable asylum, eh?
I lurk there when I run out of needles to stick in my eyes.
Have you tried new stainless wall plates for your AC receptacles yet? That's my favorite!
Hangin' out at cable asylum, eh?
I lurk there when I run out of needles to stick in my eyes.
Have you tried new stainless wall plates for your AC receptacles yet? That's my favorite!
Home Depot has nice 12 AWG lamp cord too... on s serious note, there is some truth that amps with very high feedback may avoid RF pickup with shielded speaker cables... don't spend alot of money... 1 pair shielded with shield terminated only at the amp end would be fine... IF you have high feedback and IF you have BAD RF.
Chipco... somewhere I saw a blurb on the sonic value of wooden wall plates... more natural or something.
Chipco... somewhere I saw a blurb on the sonic value of wooden wall plates... more natural or something.
Yes, but why does Jon’s recipe call for *two pieces of coax in each cable?
Supra Rondo is a definite contender, though I’m hoping Jon’s 89259 would be even better.
Jon R advises that not all Cat5 sounds the same. But yes some can be very good:
“Speaker Cable #3
The main things to look for are in these Category 4 & 5 cables are:
FEP Teflon insulation (plenum version), unshielded and bare copper conductors.
The shielded versions shouldn't be used, as well as the plain PVC insulated versions or those with tinned wire.
Excellent cost per foot for the performance.”
Belden #1557A, approx. $400 per 1,000 foot spool
Can it be bought in smaller lengths?
Supra Rondo is a definite contender, though I’m hoping Jon’s 89259 would be even better.
Jon R advises that not all Cat5 sounds the same. But yes some can be very good:
“Speaker Cable #3
The main things to look for are in these Category 4 & 5 cables are:
FEP Teflon insulation (plenum version), unshielded and bare copper conductors.
The shielded versions shouldn't be used, as well as the plain PVC insulated versions or those with tinned wire.
Excellent cost per foot for the performance.”
Belden #1557A, approx. $400 per 1,000 foot spool
Can it be bought in smaller lengths?
I tried Jon Risch's configuration with a bunch of RG-8U about a dozen years ago. I didn't like it much - just running the coax in ordinary parallel (all cores tied together, all shields together) gave me much better results.
RG-8U is kind of a pain to work with, though. I've since found mini-RG8 [1], also known as RG-8X, to be a lot more user-friendly. A single one is the moral equivalent of 16 gauge, so four in parallel will yield about 10 gauge. It's not the beef of quad RG-8U at 5 gauge, but it's still decent. Mini-RG8 tends to have foamed dielectric, so that may be of interest to you.
[1] The kind with a stranded core, 19 threads of 29 gauge.
Cheers,
Francois.
RG-8U is kind of a pain to work with, though. I've since found mini-RG8 [1], also known as RG-8X, to be a lot more user-friendly. A single one is the moral equivalent of 16 gauge, so four in parallel will yield about 10 gauge. It's not the beef of quad RG-8U at 5 gauge, but it's still decent. Mini-RG8 tends to have foamed dielectric, so that may be of interest to you.
[1] The kind with a stranded core, 19 threads of 29 gauge.
Cheers,
Francois.
Oh boy, another cable thread.
Depends on your system really. Forget fancy stuff as a rule -I can think of better ways of wasting money, and so, I'm sure, can you. Zip cord is as good as anything else in most setups -12AWG is fine. Mains cable is good. A couple of runs of CAT5 should do well. Cross coax like John suggests often work well, though read up on audioholics and Eliot sound products first on the theory. Then spend money on better drive units, which are, after all, what you actually listen to. Some fancy geometries or specific features can work well in equally specific situations, but wouldn't be appropriate in most others.
Best
Scott
Depends on your system really. Forget fancy stuff as a rule -I can think of better ways of wasting money, and so, I'm sure, can you. Zip cord is as good as anything else in most setups -12AWG is fine. Mains cable is good. A couple of runs of CAT5 should do well. Cross coax like John suggests often work well, though read up on audioholics and Eliot sound products first on the theory. Then spend money on better drive units, which are, after all, what you actually listen to. Some fancy geometries or specific features can work well in equally specific situations, but wouldn't be appropriate in most others.
Best
Scott
PVC and Teflon are very likely the worst possible materials for dielectrics in audio cables. Look up triboelectricity, which, unlike most things in audio, is a real-world phenomenon. Everybody working in cables, and I'm talking industry cables, is well aware of its effects. The latter is the reason the materials aren't popular in professional microphone cables. They are usually made of PE and soft, wear-resistant OFC. And if cables are used on stage, they are usually cotton-insulated.
This should all be old news, but I write it anyway.
All Cat 5 cables have the same specs. Spending money on brand-names is a complete waste. All are bare copper, very likely OFC. (OFC is industrial-grade copper, is all.) Cat 5 is a standard. Any Cat 5 cable will transmit a lossless 100-megahertz digital signal a minimum of 100 metres. If it's terminated to the improved Cat 5E connector (which has better "near-end crosstalk") it becomes a Cat 5E cable. It is then guaranteed to transmit a lossless 350-megahertz signal a minimum of 360 metres (if I remember). And the bit-rate will have increased ten-fold, from 100 megabits to one gigabit. If you think you need higher specs than that in the lo-rez, lo-tech world of audio, think again. And if you need cables longer than 100 metres, then you should seriously reconsider your placements. In shorter runs than that, you have very little to worry about.
This should all be old news, but I write it anyway.
All Cat 5 cables have the same specs. Spending money on brand-names is a complete waste. All are bare copper, very likely OFC. (OFC is industrial-grade copper, is all.) Cat 5 is a standard. Any Cat 5 cable will transmit a lossless 100-megahertz digital signal a minimum of 100 metres. If it's terminated to the improved Cat 5E connector (which has better "near-end crosstalk") it becomes a Cat 5E cable. It is then guaranteed to transmit a lossless 350-megahertz signal a minimum of 360 metres (if I remember). And the bit-rate will have increased ten-fold, from 100 megabits to one gigabit. If you think you need higher specs than that in the lo-rez, lo-tech world of audio, think again. And if you need cables longer than 100 metres, then you should seriously reconsider your placements. In shorter runs than that, you have very little to worry about.
I seem to remember having some interesting issues with Cat5 and one of my early IGCs, so I gave it up, and went back to my regular Van Damme OFC 1.5mm pro speaker cable. Cheap, well made, and does the job.
pinkmouse said:
Looks good to me.
Triboelectric problems with teflon are, I believe, mostly related to when it's in contact with silver, which results in measurable ringing. Limited or no, as our mutual friend, phn, advises, steer clear. Then you won't have a problem, full stop. Both fancy dilectrics, and silver are an utter waste of money. Stick to normal stuff, or the same wire as they use in the studios. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for us.
Best
Scott
For those that care: Triboelectricity
Can't say it keeps me awake at night being that I use tried and proven power cord.
Can't say it keeps me awake at night being that I use tried and proven power cord.
Many like Jon Risch's cables.
You might also take a look at Michael Percy at percyaudio.com. He offers some bulk speaker cable as well as chassis hookup wire that can be used as speaker cable as well. I tend to be partial to the Cardas, but cost is low enough that you can experiment.
Whether you hear cables making a difference is to some degree system dependent, experience dependent, and whether you can separate out a cable's signature or not. Some cannot, and seem to take it personally, resulting in vehement posts. But keep an open mind, perhaps pre-biasing by not expecting much or anything. And remember, it's your ears, your hobby, your musical tastes, and your money. Ignore those who would tell you how to enjoy your hobby, regardless of their orientation.
You might also take a look at Michael Percy at percyaudio.com. He offers some bulk speaker cable as well as chassis hookup wire that can be used as speaker cable as well. I tend to be partial to the Cardas, but cost is low enough that you can experiment.
Whether you hear cables making a difference is to some degree system dependent, experience dependent, and whether you can separate out a cable's signature or not. Some cannot, and seem to take it personally, resulting in vehement posts. But keep an open mind, perhaps pre-biasing by not expecting much or anything. And remember, it's your ears, your hobby, your musical tastes, and your money. Ignore those who would tell you how to enjoy your hobby, regardless of their orientation.
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