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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 11th February 2006, 05:19 AM   #11
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Yes, but why does Jonís recipe call for *two pieces of coax in each cable?

Supra Rondo is a definite contender, though Iím hoping Jonís 89259 would be even better.

Jon R advises that not all Cat5 sounds the same. But yes some can be very good:

ďSpeaker Cable #3

The main things to look for are in these Category 4 & 5 cables are:
FEP Teflon insulation (plenum version), unshielded and bare copper conductors.
The shielded versions shouldn't be used, as well as the plain PVC insulated versions or those with tinned wire.
Excellent cost per foot for the performance.Ē

Belden #1557A, approx. $400 per 1,000 foot spool

Can it be bought in smaller lengths?
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Old 11th February 2006, 06:15 AM   #12
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I tried Jon Risch's configuration with a bunch of RG-8U about a dozen years ago. I didn't like it much - just running the coax in ordinary parallel (all cores tied together, all shields together) gave me much better results.

RG-8U is kind of a pain to work with, though. I've since found mini-RG8 [1], also known as RG-8X, to be a lot more user-friendly. A single one is the moral equivalent of 16 gauge, so four in parallel will yield about 10 gauge. It's not the beef of quad RG-8U at 5 gauge, but it's still decent. Mini-RG8 tends to have foamed dielectric, so that may be of interest to you.

[1] The kind with a stranded core, 19 threads of 29 gauge.


Cheers,
Francois.
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Old 11th February 2006, 10:47 AM   #13
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Oh boy, another cable thread.

Depends on your system really. Forget fancy stuff as a rule -I can think of better ways of wasting money, and so, I'm sure, can you. Zip cord is as good as anything else in most setups -12AWG is fine. Mains cable is good. A couple of runs of CAT5 should do well. Cross coax like John suggests often work well, though read up on audioholics and Eliot sound products first on the theory. Then spend money on better drive units, which are, after all, what you actually listen to. Some fancy geometries or specific features can work well in equally specific situations, but wouldn't be appropriate in most others.

Best
Scott
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Old 12th February 2006, 09:59 AM   #14
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I think Iíll try some of each of Belden 89259, Cat5 Belden #1557A and the Supra Rondo (Jaycar WB1723) and see which I like.

Thank you all

Cheers
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Old 12th February 2006, 11:58 AM   #15
phn is offline phn  Sweden
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PVC and Teflon are very likely the worst possible materials for dielectrics in audio cables. Look up triboelectricity, which, unlike most things in audio, is a real-world phenomenon. Everybody working in cables, and I'm talking industry cables, is well aware of its effects. The latter is the reason the materials aren't popular in professional microphone cables. They are usually made of PE and soft, wear-resistant OFC. And if cables are used on stage, they are usually cotton-insulated.

This should all be old news, but I write it anyway.

All Cat 5 cables have the same specs. Spending money on brand-names is a complete waste. All are bare copper, very likely OFC. (OFC is industrial-grade copper, is all.) Cat 5 is a standard. Any Cat 5 cable will transmit a lossless 100-megahertz digital signal a minimum of 100 metres. If it's terminated to the improved Cat 5E connector (which has better "near-end crosstalk") it becomes a Cat 5E cable. It is then guaranteed to transmit a lossless 350-megahertz signal a minimum of 360 metres (if I remember). And the bit-rate will have increased ten-fold, from 100 megabits to one gigabit. If you think you need higher specs than that in the lo-rez, lo-tech world of audio, think again. And if you need cables longer than 100 metres, then you should seriously reconsider your placements. In shorter runs than that, you have very little to worry about.
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Old 12th February 2006, 12:07 PM   #16
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I seem to remember having some interesting issues with Cat5 and one of my early IGCs, so I gave it up, and went back to my regular Van Damme OFC 1.5mm pro speaker cable. Cheap, well made, and does the job.
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Old 12th February 2006, 01:44 PM   #17
NickZ is offline NickZ  Canada
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FWIW the local Home Depot has in wall speaker cable. It's cheaper then the normal speaker cable they sell. It's fire rated if that matters. Either 12 or 14 gauge. I think those monster people sell a similar product with a different label for a lot more money.
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Old 12th February 2006, 02:38 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by pinkmouse
I seem to remember having some interesting issues with Cat5 and one of my early IGCs, so I gave it up, and went back to my regular Van Damme OFC 1.5mm pro speaker cable. Cheap, well made, and does the job.

Looks good to me.

Triboelectric problems with teflon are, I believe, mostly related to when it's in contact with silver, which results in measurable ringing. Limited or no, as our mutual friend, phn, advises, steer clear. Then you won't have a problem, full stop. Both fancy dilectrics, and silver are an utter waste of money. Stick to normal stuff, or the same wire as they use in the studios. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for us.

Best
Scott
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Old 12th February 2006, 03:31 PM   #19
phn is offline phn  Sweden
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For those that care: Triboelectricity

Can't say it keeps me awake at night being that I use tried and proven power cord.
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Old 13th February 2006, 03:57 AM   #20
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Many like Jon Risch's cables.

You might also take a look at Michael Percy at percyaudio.com. He offers some bulk speaker cable as well as chassis hookup wire that can be used as speaker cable as well. I tend to be partial to the Cardas, but cost is low enough that you can experiment.

Whether you hear cables making a difference is to some degree system dependent, experience dependent, and whether you can separate out a cable's signature or not. Some cannot, and seem to take it personally, resulting in vehement posts. But keep an open mind, perhaps pre-biasing by not expecting much or anything. And remember, it's your ears, your hobby, your musical tastes, and your money. Ignore those who would tell you how to enjoy your hobby, regardless of their orientation.
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