Break-in with ATC drivers

[Paco]

Hello,
I've read a long article regarding driver break-in. In my own experience all the drivers need some break-in, and to my understanding, it will depend on the driver itself, the use that you do the unit and how you excite it.
The thing is that a lot of driver manufacturers has been asked and that’s what the ATC guys said regarding break-in when asked by the authors of the investigation:

“We do not consider 'burn in' an issue. When our loudspeakers leave the factory they are in perfect working order and their performance will not change over time unless they are not cared for or get very old.
I think 'burn in' was probably invented by hi-fi dealers so that when they sell a cable for 500 euros and the customer complains he can't hear any difference the dealer can tell them it needs 'burning in'. After the customer has waited for two weeks for the cable to 'burn in' he has forgotten how his system sounded in the first place and can't be bothered to complain again.”

Now I have a question for those who have experience with ATC drivers:
Is true that none of ATC drivers need a burn-in period to achieve the best sound?
If yes… do they have a factory break-in process? If they doesn’t have this process at factory… what’s so special with those drivers?

Now a general question:
In your experience, do you think that the sound from a loudspeaker will evolve during a period of time until it stabilises at some point?

Best regards,
Francisco

[Rodeodave]

With the Fostex FE108ESigma (fullrange) I have seen a considerable (let's say impressive) evolution of base and overall-performance within the first couple of hours. If I hadn't read about that break-in thingy before, I would have probably thought my horns or speakers are screwed up, really.
Maybe it's because of the rubber-thing that connects the membrane with the flange (in German it's called "Sicke", I don't know the correct term for it in any other language) needs to break in first, since it's the part which is bent most. Also the membrane will loose some of it's restoring force.

I've heard from people who connected their new speakers to a sine wave generator at 15Hz and a few Vpp (out of phase to make them quite inaudible) and let them break in for a day or so.
I've also heard that that too much power (within the speaker's range though) is not appreciated by the speaker during break-in period.

Concerning ATC drivers I can't share any experiences, but with my Fostex I can say that there is a certain break-in time. With the amount of music I've been listening to in the beginning, I would say like a 100 hours, since then there probably were no noticable/audible changes in performance.
But sometimes I wonder if there's a plateau in the "performance-curve" (after break-in) and after some thousand hours of operation the performance decreases again?!

[Vikash]

Any driver with a spider suspension and surround (so nearly all dynamic transducers) will experience a change in measured T/S parameters as the suspension and surround are fully stretched from new. I've measured this several times in different drivers and it always applies to a varying degree.

ATC is no more special in this respect.

However if you're talking about an acoustic change in the midrange and top end over a period of time (which in every historical case of break-in has only ever improved acoustically) then this is what ATC is calling voodoo.

The human hearing mechanism is probably far more adaptive which is why people percieve a change - and this would also explain why it only ever gets better.

[ShinOBIWAN]

I've used a few ATC drivers and currently run the SM75.150S mid with the SB75.234SC bass drivers.

I think that there probably is changes to the sound but I can't honestly say that I've really noticed any driver become better sounding during break-in.

I'm still undecided because I don't have any firm conclusion but like Vikash said, the electrical properties of the drivers do definitely change and since these have an effect on the performance of the driver then I'm inclined to believe the whole burn-in thing for drivers althought from my own experience this is either very slight or inaudable.

A good driver sounds good straight from the box IMO.

[ShinOBIWAN]

Originally posted by Rodeodave
But sometimes I wonder if there's a plateau in the "performance-curve" (after break-in) and after some thousand hours of operation the performance decreases again?!

Drivers defintely do decrease in performance over time but this is with ageing and significant use. Its a natural thing in all things mechanical. The quality of the components and the build determine just how long a driver will last.

[binarywhisper]

I think that there probably is changes to the sound but I can't honestly say that I've really noticed any driver become better sounding during break-in.

interesting, I must say that I am surprised to hear an opinion that speakers don't improve in sound with break in.

Mine is that I don't think I've heard a driver that didn't improve with a break in period. For some it has been subtle, maybe even imaginary but for some it has been huge.

This is fresh in my mind right now as I just finished breaking in a pair of css 125's. Out of the box, no bass, no high's and the mid's beamed like crazy. After 100hrs of play I now beleive them to be prehaps the best value in a speakers I have ever heard.

I have several friends that claim cables need break in. I can't hear it if they do. I think if you spend $1000 on two cables something needs to be broke in

[ShinOBIWAN]

Originally posted by binarywhisper
interesting, I must say that I am surprised to hear an opinion that speakers don't improve in sound with break in.

Now now, your putting words in my mouth I didn't say that they don't improve just that I don't notice it to anything like the extent others do/claim. The only changes I've noticed is in the bass region but even then this was small.

Aclimatisation is probably half the perceived change IMO.

[binarywhisper]

Originally posted by ShinOBIWAN


Now now, your putting words in my mouth I didn't say that they don't improve just that I don't notice it to anything like the extent others do/claim. The only changes I've noticed is in the bass region but even then this was small.

Aclimatisation is probably half the perceived change IMO.

Perhaps the changes are greater with full range drivers. I know that I had always found it to be a subtle, although sometimes critical improvement till ordering these little fullrangers.

My wife is not into audio at all but she noticed the difference in the CSS 125's and would agree that there was nothing subtle about it. She (well we actually) thought I had wasted my money when I first played them. They sounded real bad, possibly the worst I'd ever bought.

If you won't allow me to put words in your mouth perhaps I can spend your money for you You couldn't lose ordering a pair. Great speaker for little coin and I can assure you will have no problem finding a friend that will happily buy them from you if you dislike them.

lol , amazing the people you meet on the net eh? They speak for you, spend your money ... you need any dating advice?

[Paco]

Hi all,
From my experience, the change is very noticeable with most bass drivers after a couple of hours reproducing a sine-wave at high excursion. After this process the bass, that was missing, suddenly appear. The change with mids and tweeters seems to be more controversial. The last tweeters that I’ve used are Morel Supreme 110. The improvement after 20-30 hours playing music at high SPL was very noticeable. The sound was more relaxed, without some kind of aggressiveness that it had at the beginning. With mids I’ve get amazed on how the sound of a Skaaning 18H52 has enhanced with time. Don’t get me wrong, the driver sounded very good from the beginning, but the amazing is that has been improving for about 3 months, playing music regularly.
Most of the drivers that I’ve tested (I would say all with cone) needed some king of break-in, that’s why I got very surprised with ATC’s response.

ShinOBIWAN posted:

I've used a few ATC drivers and currently run the SM75.150S mid with the SB75.234SC bass drivers.

How do the SM75.150S sound? I’ve been thinking in using the SM75.150 in one of my designs but never did…

Best regads,
FRancisco

[ShinOBIWAN]

Originally posted by Paco
How do the SM75.150S sound? I’ve been thinking in using the SM75.150 in one of my designs but never did…

Best regads,
FRancisco

All the ATC drivers are great but the mid's are just plain special. I had the SM75.150 at first and then moved onto the supers. I've never heard a anything less than enthusiastic comment about either.