G'day
First of all I would like to say how great this Forum is!,
Ok, my main goal here is to design and a build a pair of 2 or 3way speakers that will be used for general music listening and PA speakers for a 4 person rock band.I have searched this forum alot but can't find much that corresponds with the brands of drivers that I am looking at.
I have found a few drivers but am unsure what would be the best:
-Eminence Delta 12
-Eminence Alpha 15A
-P.Audio HP-15W
-Etone 1225 o 1525 (cant find T/S)
-Selenium 15PW3
-possibly this driver
I was thinking I could put the Eminence Alpa 15A's as woofers, the Delta 12's as mid-range or possibly smaller 8 or 10 inch Emenence drivers as mids, until I ran the Alpha 15A and Delta 12 in 'Boxplot' and 'Win ISD' where the optimum box sizes for these drivers was huge, one of them was like 1500 L.
If any of you guys have had any experience with these drivers please let me know your 2 cents, advice would be very much appreciated or if someone could recomend a driver in a similar price range that would be suitable for this aplication.
Cheers, Matt
First of all I would like to say how great this Forum is!,
Ok, my main goal here is to design and a build a pair of 2 or 3way speakers that will be used for general music listening and PA speakers for a 4 person rock band.I have searched this forum alot but can't find much that corresponds with the brands of drivers that I am looking at.
I have found a few drivers but am unsure what would be the best:
-Eminence Delta 12
-Eminence Alpha 15A
-P.Audio HP-15W
-Etone 1225 o 1525 (cant find T/S)
-Selenium 15PW3
-possibly this driver
I was thinking I could put the Eminence Alpa 15A's as woofers, the Delta 12's as mid-range or possibly smaller 8 or 10 inch Emenence drivers as mids, until I ran the Alpha 15A and Delta 12 in 'Boxplot' and 'Win ISD' where the optimum box sizes for these drivers was huge, one of them was like 1500 L.
If any of you guys have had any experience with these drivers please let me know your 2 cents, advice would be very much appreciated or if someone could recomend a driver in a similar price range that would be suitable for this aplication.
Cheers, Matt
You might want to check out http://pispeakers.com . Wayne who runs it all sells kits based on both the Alpha 15, and the Delta 12. The prices are quite reasonable, and the kits are well designed. You might find exactly what you want there, and get out of the task of designing the crossover, which is not easy to do. Especially if you don't have any experience in crossover design. Either way you should realize that speakers built around these driver will be large, which is pretty hard to get around if you are looking for high effeciency drivers that can deliver any bass.
Joe
Joe
The other standard answer for this would be to check out Bill Fitzmaurices stuff. The Pi gear is really more 'home stuff that might do OK for PA in a pinch', whereas Bills stuff is 'PA stuff that you can use at home in a pinch'
www.billfitzmaurice.com for the plans
http://audioroundtable.com/BillFitzmaurice/ for a good forum
www.billfitzmaurice.com for the plans
http://audioroundtable.com/BillFitzmaurice/ for a good forum
That Jaycar driver is not a PA driver, not a good idea.
The Eminence Alpha's generally require huge boxes, although Wayne uses a different alignment that allows you to go smaller.
I have actually used the Delta 12 quite a bit, again using Pi-Align, and they do work very nicely combined with a CTS piezo. Cabinet is about 40L (iirc).
The Etones seem to be common down here, I think they were actually made here ?? but its a pain to find T/S spec for them if you don't have a woofer tester available.
I can't comment on the other 2.
The main thing is to be sure that whatever you choose is suitable for you purpose. The single Delta 12 will work well in small pubs for vocal and acoustic work, but if you expect it to be used as vocals for a loud rock band, you really need way more grunt !!
The Eminence Alpha's generally require huge boxes, although Wayne uses a different alignment that allows you to go smaller.
I have actually used the Delta 12 quite a bit, again using Pi-Align, and they do work very nicely combined with a CTS piezo. Cabinet is about 40L (iirc).
The Etones seem to be common down here, I think they were actually made here ?? but its a pain to find T/S spec for them if you don't have a woofer tester available.
I can't comment on the other 2.
The main thing is to be sure that whatever you choose is suitable for you purpose. The single Delta 12 will work well in small pubs for vocal and acoustic work, but if you expect it to be used as vocals for a loud rock band, you really need way more grunt !!
Thanks for your replys,
Joe - Those pi speaker kits seem very good but they could be a bit expessive once converted into Australian dollars + shipping fees + import tax.
dwk123 - Bill Fitzmaurices DIY speaker plans also look good but the only suitabe plan i can seem to find is the 'DR300 Concert Grade PA Top' but this has the Eminence Magnum 12HO woofer in it which is quite expensive here in Australia.
Andy - Thanks for the head up on that jaycar driver. Also, I was reading
this thread and I was wondering if you could email me those plans you were speaking of, that would be much appresiated.
Cheers, Matt
Joe - Those pi speaker kits seem very good but they could be a bit expessive once converted into Australian dollars + shipping fees + import tax.
dwk123 - Bill Fitzmaurices DIY speaker plans also look good but the only suitabe plan i can seem to find is the 'DR300 Concert Grade PA Top' but this has the Eminence Magnum 12HO woofer in it which is quite expensive here in Australia.
Andy - Thanks for the head up on that jaycar driver. Also, I was reading
this thread and I was wondering if you could email me those plans you were speaking of, that would be much appresiated.
Cheers, Matt
I'll have a search for the plans, but I'm not sure they got transferred from the old computer. Hope.!!
At least I should be able to find volume and vent dimensions, which should be enough.
If you don't hear from me within a week or so, email me to remind me, cos I'm pretty busy at the moment with other stuff !
At least I should be able to find volume and vent dimensions, which should be enough.
If you don't hear from me within a week or so, email me to remind me, cos I'm pretty busy at the moment with other stuff !
12 or 15 is the big Q
For general listening I would advise against a 15 and a 1 inch.
15 and 2 would work but you will not really have the upper harmonics unless you pay loads of pennies.
If however you are planning to run miked bass and such through the cabinet a 15 might still be the way to go.
If you are to use them for vocals and keyboards mainly you will be better off with a 12 inch.
You will find that the money spent on drivers will be saved on money spent on amps in the PA world.
3 db more sensitivity means (in therory) half the power needed from the amp.
That is a 95 db speakers requires a twice as strong (and usually twice as expensive) amp as a speaker with 98db sensitivity.
If this is your first venture into DIY PA stick with a two way speaker.
Then start looking at your options and we can all help out.
For general listening I would advise against a 15 and a 1 inch.
15 and 2 would work but you will not really have the upper harmonics unless you pay loads of pennies.
If however you are planning to run miked bass and such through the cabinet a 15 might still be the way to go.
If you are to use them for vocals and keyboards mainly you will be better off with a 12 inch.
You will find that the money spent on drivers will be saved on money spent on amps in the PA world.
3 db more sensitivity means (in therory) half the power needed from the amp.
That is a 95 db speakers requires a twice as strong (and usually twice as expensive) amp as a speaker with 98db sensitivity.
If this is your first venture into DIY PA stick with a two way speaker.
Then start looking at your options and we can all help out.
Re: Re: 12 or 15 is the big Q
A 12" coax with a 15" below running up to 200 - 300 Hz could be nice - I'd go active xo.
The bit about the original post that bothers me is the "and PA speakers for a 4 person rock band"
Makes me start thinking of multiple 18" subs and double 15's per side etc etc...
Rob
EDIT: If I was doing this I'd consider a pair of eminence delta 12LF per side with a horn / 2" CD in an mtm type enclosure, The deltas would be sealed and I'd look at the X1 design at speakerplans.com as a sub. I'd go fully active and digital LMS aswell. Poss passive xo the horn to a bullet tweet if needed.
All depends on the required output in the live pa scenario..
planet10 said:
A 12" coax with a 15" below running up to 200 - 300 Hz could be nice - I'd go active xo.
The bit about the original post that bothers me is the "and PA speakers for a 4 person rock band"
Makes me start thinking of multiple 18" subs and double 15's per side etc etc...
Rob
EDIT: If I was doing this I'd consider a pair of eminence delta 12LF per side with a horn / 2" CD in an mtm type enclosure, The deltas would be sealed and I'd look at the X1 design at speakerplans.com as a sub. I'd go fully active and digital LMS aswell. Poss passive xo the horn to a bullet tweet if needed.
All depends on the required output in the live pa scenario..
Under Sided said:
You may need to be a bit clearer on your requirements - is this mostly for home, or mostly for playing clubs? How big are the clubs? Output requirements?. The DR300 is a monster, and wouldn't be what I would have expected you to look at - it's more oriented at large-venue gigs. Something like a couple DR200's with Tuba 24's would be a more appropriate setup, and even that is overkill if this is mostly for home use. As far as drivers go, Bill's a pretty helpful guy and offers a lot of advice on his forum, including questions regarding how to use 'existing drivers' in his designs.
I agree with the reply that indicated that Wayne at Pi can be helpful with plans - his stuff is pretty straightforward, and he seems willing to help out. You need to know what you want though - a Studio 4Pi will play loud in a home envioronment, but I wouldn't necessarily expect it to hold up all that well in a PA setting.
Thanks all you guys for your replys.
-Medium sized gigs at local pubs (may be outdoor) and gigs at parties.
When used at a gig they will be used mainly for vocals and possibly keyboard.
I was thinking I could maybe build the Pispeakers Thermionic Series four π bass reflex (thats with an Eminence Alpha 15 and an Eminence PSD 2002 CD ) and possibly even add a 8" or 10" driver for a midrange.Is this a good idea or would I be better off building something with a 2" CD like Holger Honda suggested?
Cheers, Matt
-I will be using these speakers probably about 50% general music listening (and the occasional party) and 50% gigs and band rehersal.
-Medium sized gigs at local pubs (may be outdoor) and gigs at parties.
When used at a gig they will be used mainly for vocals and possibly keyboard.
I was thinking I could maybe build the Pispeakers Thermionic Series four π bass reflex (thats with an Eminence Alpha 15 and an Eminence PSD 2002 CD ) and possibly even add a 8" or 10" driver for a midrange.Is this a good idea or would I be better off building something with a 2" CD like Holger Honda suggested?
Cheers, Matt
I would seriously concider a 2 inch CD Horn / comp driver combo rather then the 15-8-1 idea.
You would have less work and parts in the crossover, and a lot easier cabinet to build without the extra box in a box that the three way would require. The money from the extra 8 inch and the xover parts would make up for the additional cost of the 2 inch over the 1 inch.
It would also be a lighter cabinet.
If you want a high output cabinet that has a decent midrange you could also consider a 2x12 + a 1 inch. that would indeed be puchy,"economical" and somewhat hifi.
You would have less work and parts in the crossover, and a lot easier cabinet to build without the extra box in a box that the three way would require. The money from the extra 8 inch and the xover parts would make up for the additional cost of the 2 inch over the 1 inch.
It would also be a lighter cabinet.
If you want a high output cabinet that has a decent midrange you could also consider a 2x12 + a 1 inch. that would indeed be puchy,"economical" and somewhat hifi.
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