Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st January 2006, 12:33 AM   #11
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
From another thread this is a first project I believe, with a budget. For a first project, the SPH-135KEP and the Creative Sound have the sort of benign frequency response that simplifies crossover design and allows lower order designs.

I am using the Skaaning/Audio Technology 4" midrange mentioned above in the current project. It is the best mid I have ever heard, and has it all; good behavior, clean, dynamic, transparent. It compares very favorably with electrostatics for transparency and transient capability, but also has cone dynamic range. I cannot speak to its overload characteristics, as I have never overloaded it, and do not care to try. It has caused several upgrades to my system, currently Bryston 4BST and Levinson 30 DAC. Plus an interconnect upgrade. It is still better than the associated components. It rewards and to some degree requires excellent crossover components, which tends to argue against it for a first project. And it is expensive. We tried Accutons (previous generation), and several other drivers in that class, and prefer the Skaaning.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2006, 12:46 AM   #12
hermanv is offline hermanv  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northern California
Default Skaaning Drivers

Mr. Skaaning and son have been making some of the finest drivers for two generations. Designs at Dynaudio, Scan Speak and now AudioTechnica can be traced to these gentlemen. They also designed the Revelator Tweeter still one of the best dome tweeters available after all these years.

I heartily recommend either their Flexunits and C-Quenze midrange drivers as some of the finest midranges available. Not inexpensive and reponsive to good electronics and crosover design, IMHO these drivers are among the very best.

http://www.audiotechnology.dk/iz.asp?id=4|a|132|||

I also recommend a visit to the Loudspeaker Design Guide website, a treasure trove of driver, crossover and cabinet data.

http://ldsg.snippets.org/index.php3
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2006, 04:45 AM   #13
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Mountain View, CA
How about this B&C 6" pro driver?

http://www.bcspeakers.com/index.php?...rizione_prod=3

You don't need big xmax, and the 96 dB efficiency will give good dynamics and low power compression.

Made in Italy, too
__________________
-----------------------------------------
Noah
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2006, 04:53 AM   #14
filgor is offline filgor  Australia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sydney
Quote:
Originally posted by serengetiplains
Try the Audio Technology (Skaaning) 4" Flex Unit. Expensive, but look at that response curve!
This driver looks fantastic if you can afford it.
However the response graph only shows on axis response. My guess is that it probably has a good off axis response but without a measurement that is nothing more than a guess.

Beppe61,
it seems that you are particularly concerned about off axis response so if I was you I would want to see a graph including off axis response before commiting to a purchase.

As far as using a cone mid is concerned if you want to run your mid down to 150Hz you will need to use a reasonably sized driver. A 4 inch is probably as small as I would go otherwise you will pushing it at the low frequency end.

Consider the following 2 drivers. (the skanning is likely to have very similar directivity)

Peerles V-line (once Vifa) PL11MH09-08 http://www.tymphany.com/datasheet/printview.php?id=157
Peerless 4" 830872 http://www.tymphany.com/datasheet/printview.php?id=10

The attached graphs show on axis, 30deg and 60deg off axis. I stretched the scales so that they are directly comparable.
Note that dispersion in both is quite good at 3kHz.

Also remember that your tweeter will be producing half the sound at the cross over frequency so the drop in off axis response of your final speaker will be much lower than you might imagine.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg peelessvifa.jpg (93.9 KB, 1477 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2006, 05:04 AM   #15
diyAudio Member
 
serengetiplains's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Canada
Default Re: Skaaning Drivers

Quote:
Originally posted by hermanv
Mr. Skaaning and son have been making some of the finest drivers for two generations. Designs at Dynaudio, Scan Speak and now AudioTechnica can be traced to these gentlemen. They also designed the Revelator Tweeter still one of the best dome tweeters available after all these years.
Designed the Revelator tweeter also? What a resume.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2006, 07:47 AM   #16
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Which may be part of the reason why the Revelator and Skaaning blend so nicely. They go together very well.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2006, 04:27 PM   #17
beppe61 is offline beppe61  Italy
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: torino
Quote:
Originally posted by filgor
... > Beppe61, it seems that you are particularly concerned about off axis response so if I was you I would want to see a graph including off axis response before commiting to a purchase.

Dear Sir, thank you very much for your kind and very valuable advice.
I understand that the problem of directionality (is that correct?) starts from 80 Hz and go up with frequency.
I find this point very very interesting and fundamental because I am a fan of soundstage reproduction (expecially in the depth direction).
I find a really good reproduction of the soundstage something of magic, like being transported in time and space (I am not under the effect of some drugs, eh eh eh).
No really, I like the effect very much indeed.
A speaker that fails at reproducing it is a wrong speaker IMHO.
On principle a driver should be used (and please correct me if I am wrong) in the range where is response is flat also let's say +-60 degrees off axis. If not the sweet-spot will be very narrow.
Am I wrong ?

> As far as using a cone mid is concerned if you want to run your mid down to 150Hz you will need to use a reasonably sized driver.

I know that a dome mid can go down only to 700-800 Hz maximum.
And in this case a mid-woofer should be needed.

> A 4 inch is probably as small as I would go otherwise you will pushing it at the low frequency end.
Consider the following 2 drivers. (the skanning is likely to have very similar directivity)
Peerles V-line (once Vifa) PL11MH09-08 http://www.tymphany.com/datasheet/printview.php?id=157
Peerless 4" 830872 http://www.tymphany.com/datasheet/printview.php?id=10
The attached graphs show on axis, 30deg and 60deg off axis.
I stretched the scales so that they are directly comparable.
Note that dispersion in both is quite good at 3kHz.

They seem just perfect for the case.
Thank you for the suggestion.

> Also remember that your tweeter will be producing half the sound at the cross over frequency so the drop in off axis response of your final speaker will be much lower than you might imagine.

I understand that there is a summing effect at the crossover point but if I cross two drivers in order to get a flat response on axis what happens off axis ? could I have a dip in the response at the crossover points ?
And this problem could be more severe with 6db/octave crossovers ? I mean which value of slope do you recommend between the mid cone and the tweeter and between the mid and the woofer ?

Thank you very much indeed.

Kind regards,

beppe





  Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2006, 04:55 PM   #18
Zaph is offline Zaph  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Zaph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Quote:
Originally posted by owdi
My personal favorite of the month is the Vifa XG18.
I agree with Owdi's assessment of the XG18, particularly if your range of use is 150-3000. While it's not that expensive of a driver, paying more most likely will not get you anything better. I've used many of these.

It would be a mistake to think that paying more gets you a better driver. There is almost no link between price and performance.
__________________
-Zaph|Audio-
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2006, 05:14 PM   #19
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
In general, one 4 inch driver will have very similar dispersion characteristics as another, assuming standard construction. (No whizzer cones for example.) The effect is primarily governed by the diameter of the cone and the wave length at a given frequency.

Imaging is governed by several factors. Driver and to some lesser degree crossover component matching, room/furniture reflections, placement, and source of course. I don't listen much for imaging, as I do not hear pinpoint imaging at live performances. And I don't design for it as such, but find that speakers that do all other things well will image well as well.

And super dispersion is not your friend in the normal home listening environment. More reflections from the side from walls, furniture, floor, etc. will give more strength to the delayed signals. The combination of direct and delayed at your listening point will be more raggedness in frequency response, and of course time "smearing", as one meter is 3 ms of delay. Columnar speaker designs restrict dispersion, and can image very well.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st January 2006, 05:16 PM   #20
sachi is offline sachi  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Silicon Forest
How about the Scan Speak 13m/8640.

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/ind...18236&pid=1157
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
full range without whizzer cone NED 209 Full Range 31 13th January 2008 12:04 AM
Freq range for Apex Jr 3" M&K twin cone? Brisso57 Multi-Way 0 4th September 2007 11:05 AM
Seas 11F-lGWD full range with whizzer cone capslock Full Range 1 7th October 2005 06:26 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 06:59 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2