pinkmouse said:
I agree... wood glue is pretty much top stuff
filling gaps less than 1/4" in my old days before a good circular laser saw and table saw I used liquid nails and then bondo'd/plastered the outside (only for carpeting/paint work)
that gorrila glue is expensive and never stuck to pine for some reason
Not so hastey pinkmouse.
Epoxy doesn't shrink like PVA. So you don't need clamps.
Epoxy doesn't expand like Urethane. So you don't need clamps.
Epoxy can be mixed with about anything for gap filling
Epoxy doesn't weaken with age... PVA does.
Epoxy is water proof... PVA is not.
Epoxy does cost more, but the double syringes can be had now for 2 buck... $20 could put together some speaks...
Epoxy does suck though... refer to pinkmouse!
Epoxy doesn't shrink like PVA. So you don't need clamps.
Epoxy doesn't expand like Urethane. So you don't need clamps.
Epoxy can be mixed with about anything for gap filling
Epoxy doesn't weaken with age... PVA does.
Epoxy is water proof... PVA is not.
Epoxy does cost more, but the double syringes can be had now for 2 buck... $20 could put together some speaks...
Epoxy does suck though... refer to pinkmouse!
You do indeed need some clamping while epoxy cures-
Normal PVA glue weakening?? Forget it- if you don't think soaking your speakers with water.
Epoxy makes great filler, mixed with saw dust if necesseary. can be knifed, driller, planed, routed etc.
Wonderful glue, though, but not at all necesseary for normal joints.
Normal PVA glue weakening?? Forget it- if you don't think soaking your speakers with water.
Epoxy makes great filler, mixed with saw dust if necesseary. can be knifed, driller, planed, routed etc.
Wonderful glue, though, but not at all necesseary for normal joints.
My experience with epoxy is that it sits on the surface of the wood, and although the glue will never fail, the wood fails more easily than with a glue that penetrates the wood. I prefer the gorilla type glues and yellow carpenter's glue for that reason.
Of course the speaker cabinet is not under that sort of stress, but it seems intuitive that stiffening the joint slightly due to absorption can't hurt and might help in modest vibration reduction.
Of course the speaker cabinet is not under that sort of stress, but it seems intuitive that stiffening the joint slightly due to absorption can't hurt and might help in modest vibration reduction.
To be fair to Epoxy - there are alot of different epoxies out there, each with specific applications in mind. If you find that your epoxy does not penetrate the wood, you should consider a different epoxy for that application. I've found that for MDF joints an epoxy resin meant for wetting fiberglass or marine types are easiest to work with as they are not nearly as thick as some of the "wood epoxy" types. This makes it much more managable, unfortunately most of the fiberglassing epoxy that you will find in the home stores produces toxic fumes which are also very flammable - making their use in the garage limitted to the warm months (garage heater + flammable vapors = very bad day).
If you are looking for something readily available at your local stores, that is non toxic and easy to work with - stick with a good yellow glue like TiteBond or ProBond wood glues.
A handy trick for cleanup, I use blue painters tape to mask off the area near the joint where the glue or epoxy may squeeze out. Once the glue is dry or epoxy has cured, just take off the tape. No scraping or major sanding required.
~Brad
If you are looking for something readily available at your local stores, that is non toxic and easy to work with - stick with a good yellow glue like TiteBond or ProBond wood glues.
A handy trick for cleanup, I use blue painters tape to mask off the area near the joint where the glue or epoxy may squeeze out. Once the glue is dry or epoxy has cured, just take off the tape. No scraping or major sanding required.
~Brad
I personally love Titebond II for everything woodworking. The long open time relative to epoxy (at least some of them) and gorilla coupled with the ease of cleanup makes it a lasting favorite for me. As with any glue, you should clamp whether using water based or with epoxy or gorilla glue. Any time you don't clamp you run a great risk of making a weak joint that will separate under continuous vibration.
As far as gap filling and leaks are concerned, I usually just caulk the snot out of the inside corners after glue-up with a silicon based exterior grade caulk (GE brand is my personal favorite) in case there is a leak anywhere. With my table saw, measurements are pretty easy to hit so I rarely get gaps over 1/64", so YMMV if you are trying to plug larger gaps.
I also have had good luck with liquid nails as an adhesive for assembling boxes, though the viscosity of it makes glue-up a little harder than with Titebond. In many cases I have been concerned that the flow didn't completely seal the joint, but I cannot be certain of that. I have noticed that joint gaps are sometimes more pronounced when using liquid nails if clamping pressure is not sufficient. Again, I sealed the inside joints with silicon caulk just in case. I may be smoking crack here, but I thought the elasticity of liquid nails when dry was supposed to help dampen cabinets too. I have never attempted to verify this, but if others have some experience I would love to hear if you have found this to be the case.
Also, I like the bondo technique of exterior gap filling in MDF. I have had quite good success with painting over it and getting a smooth blend between but-jointed panels.
my $0.02
As far as gap filling and leaks are concerned, I usually just caulk the snot out of the inside corners after glue-up with a silicon based exterior grade caulk (GE brand is my personal favorite) in case there is a leak anywhere. With my table saw, measurements are pretty easy to hit so I rarely get gaps over 1/64", so YMMV if you are trying to plug larger gaps.
I also have had good luck with liquid nails as an adhesive for assembling boxes, though the viscosity of it makes glue-up a little harder than with Titebond. In many cases I have been concerned that the flow didn't completely seal the joint, but I cannot be certain of that. I have noticed that joint gaps are sometimes more pronounced when using liquid nails if clamping pressure is not sufficient. Again, I sealed the inside joints with silicon caulk just in case. I may be smoking crack here, but I thought the elasticity of liquid nails when dry was supposed to help dampen cabinets too. I have never attempted to verify this, but if others have some experience I would love to hear if you have found this to be the case.
Also, I like the bondo technique of exterior gap filling in MDF. I have had quite good success with painting over it and getting a smooth blend between but-jointed panels.
my $0.02
Last time,
Epoxy don't need no stinkin' clamps... unless you're using clamps to force ill fitting pieces together... read the data. Clamps can actually starve the joints if used with too much pressure. Now the joint should not be moved while curing so clamps, or better yet, brads can be used to stabilize things.
Epoxy don't need no stinkin' clamps... unless you're using clamps to force ill fitting pieces together... read the data. Clamps can actually starve the joints if used with too much pressure. Now the joint should not be moved while curing so clamps, or better yet, brads can be used to stabilize things.
I have a question. Why are we even discussing epoxy? There is no need for it when working with wood. No one I know uses it on wood unless it's on a boat and even then there are alternatives. It simply doesn't make sense unless the price is the same as a PVA type. It can be used but why would anyone even think about it for a speaker?
To me that's like using a 3" nail when you need a thumbtack.
Use wood glue, the yellow stuff is better than the white. Clamp, nail, screw or best, use corner blocking.
To me that's like using a 3" nail when you need a thumbtack.
Use wood glue, the yellow stuff is better than the white. Clamp, nail, screw or best, use corner blocking.
I use Titebond II for all my boxes. I don't clamp at all. After applying the glue, I use an electric nail gun and nail the pieces in place. Once, I had to dismantle a box by using a hammer to break the pieces apart, the MDF broke before the glued seams did. The glue practically welded the pieces together. No need to use epoxy.
Pictured is a MTM with RS180s and Seas H1212, sitting on top of a RSHF 10" sub and passive radiator, powered by 300W BASH amps. The sub is 1.6 cu ft, braced extensively using just 1.5" nails and lots of Titebond II glue.
Hong
Pictured is a MTM with RS180s and Seas H1212, sitting on top of a RSHF 10" sub and passive radiator, powered by 300W BASH amps. The sub is 1.6 cu ft, braced extensively using just 1.5" nails and lots of Titebond II glue.
Hong
hongrn said:
this line is (almost) most intelligent line in this thread...
sorry,to be more precise-not "most intelligent" ,in fact-most reasonable!
btw-I always use plain wood-glue (white in my area of the world ),but for putty is best to use sort intended for auto market (I presume this is epoxy based
)
Works for me! The only problem I have with using nails is that I usually round over the edges of the boxes. It looks like you rounded the face of your box, and I was wondering what you do about nails potentially getting in the way? I agree that using nails, pins, or screws to hold joints in place is great in lieu of clamping, but I have always been paranoid of carbide hitting steel nails!hongrn said:
Poobah, I understand (quite well in fact) that over-tightening clamps can starve joints of adhesives through over thinning adhesive layers. My argument is quite simple: without securing joints (through clamping, or as you also propose, through pinning/nailing/screwing), the adhesive will not seat properly, will not spread across surfaces sufficiently, and will subsequently not adhere properly. I think you and I are on the same page that joints need to be secured during set time—sorry if I misunderstood your position. I agree that nails can be used as “clamps” to secure joints, but I originally understood your position to mean that epoxied joints could essentially be pressed into place and hold well. Sorry for the confusion.
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