Seas-based Center channel...need help

[ssabripo]

I've narrowed down my WMTW Center channel design to the following components:

2 x Seas Excel W18E-001 7" mid woofers
1 x Seas Excel W12CY 001 4.5" midrange
1 x Seas Millenium T25CF 002 tweeter

I need help with the Crossover....I started the x-over design based on the Odin Mk3 (see attachement). But I'm having some trouble trying to squeeze the midrange without messing up the dynamic range of the network.

any help is appreciated....

[ssabripo]

I get no love....

[sdclc126]

I'm not a crossover expert, but perhaps you will get some responses if you define "squeeze the midrange."

As a sidebar, this is somewhat off subject, but I think many people on this forum would opt for ditching the 4.5" midrange altogether and going WTW. If the woofs and tweet can cross over to eachother within their useful ranges, some of your crossover design issues may be addressed. A simpler design, less money, and performace should be indistinguishable.

I hope this is at least somewhat useful - sometimes more is not necessarily better. Nice high-end project by the way, with the SEAS stuff - worthy of mains. Which begs the question...

[ssabripo]

I started thinking about the x-over design....what do you think of doing this:

using the W18E-001 in parallel, crossed over between 50hz to 1250 hz
using the Excel W12CY 001 crossed between 600hz and 6khz
using the T25CF 002 tweeter highpassed at 5khz

this obviously has some merge areas, but given the responses of the drivers, it may actually blend very well.



sdclc126, yes the question is definitely a good one .... I currently am running a pair of swan Diva 6.1s as my mains, but they will soon be a thing of the past.

if you haven't noticed, the DIY bug bit me HARD!!! I am completing the subwoofer, and will start cutting wood as soon as the driver gets here next week.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...697#post810697

Next, is this Center channel, and if it sounds as good as I think, then I will go Seas mains as well.....

[Paul W]

Great drivers, but you'll need a great crossover network to go with them.

You'll need measurement capability, a simulator, and experience to do them any justice at all. If you don't have measurement capability and SW, I suggest turning the crossover job over to a true pro. Crossovers for the mag drivers are hypercritical.

[sdclc126]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ssabripo
[B]I started thinking about the x-over design....what do you think of doing this:

using the W18E-001 in parallel, crossed over between 50hz to 1250 hz
using the Excel W12CY 001 crossed between 600hz and 6khz
using the T25CF 002 tweeter highpassed at 5khz

this obviously has some merge areas, but given the responses of the drivers, it may actually blend very well.



This is the kind of stuff I don't know about - see Pauls' post above.

[ssabripo]

Originally posted by Paul W
Great drivers, but you'll need a great crossover network to go with them.

You'll need measurement capability, a simulator, and experience to do them any justice at all. If you don't have measurement capability and SW, I suggest turning the crossover job over to a true pro. Crossovers for the mag drivers are hypercritical.

[IMG]http://www.geocities.com/pnwright3/Wings2001.jpg[IMG]

Paul...fair enough, and same advice I've gotten from many, so I guess these drivers come with a penalty for their great performance: gotta have really excellent networks, or you wont make them shine (not as forgiving).

on that note, since I have to admit that I dont have all the necessary tools (a mic, sound card, and impedance jig, is prolly not gonna cut it), who would you suggest that may be able to lend me a hand (for relatively affordable price of consult?)

[sdclc126]

Originally posted by ssabripo



"On that note, since I have to admit that I dont have all the necessary tools (a mic, sound card, and impedance jig, is prolly not gonna cut it), who would you suggest that may be able to lend me a hand (for relatively affordable price of consult?)"

John Krutke at http://www.zaphaudio.com/ might do it - I think he charges $30 an hour or so (I have no idea how many hours it would take!). I don't know if he's done any designs with the SEAS magnesium drivers, but he has with their aluminum units (http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker17.html), and they are supposed to be very close to the Excels (the 27TBFCG tweeter is supposed to be BETTER).

Which leads me to this suggestion: Since this is a center channel speaker, consider perhaps a less "ambitious" design and go with the aluminum drivers, in a WTW configuration. You could use Zaph's design, add another woofer, and adapt the crossover accordingly.

This will save time, money, and frustration in trying to come up with a suitable crossover, and still sound fantastic. Paying someone to design a crossover could double the cost of the project. You can put the money you save toward your new mains!

The other alternative is to find a kit, someone else's design that is similar to your idea, or hope that someone here on the forum can offer some more advice on your crossover.

[Paul W]

In addition to John, there are at least a couple of guys that frequent the Madisound board...Dennis M and Jeff B are also well respected.

Personally, I'd stick to the 3-way WM/TW. An MTM would be simpler, but a professional designer will be able to give you a 3-way with much better performance. With the level of investment you are making, do it well and you won't regret it later.

[ssabripo]

Originally posted by Paul W
In addition to John, there are at least a couple of guys that frequent the Madisound board...Dennis M and Jeff B are also well respected.

Personally, I'd stick to the 3-way WM/TW. An MTM would be simpler, but a professional designer will be able to give you a 3-way with much better performance. With the level of investment you are making, do it well and you won't regret it later.

I completely agree Paul, and thus my desire to go WMTW with a pair of 7" W18's, a single 4.5" WCY, and the millenium tweeter...I think that combo would give a KILLER CC if designed correctly.

something like this:

but not as high (I have some height constraints in my setup) and using the Millenium tweeter instead.

I've done some Linkwitz-Riley 4th order designs in the past with success, so I don't think I will be shooting in the dark.....but again, I gotta see if the investment in "paying someone" is worth it....plus, what is the fun in that?! that's no DIY

I can always end up buying an Aerial Acoustics CC5 or something if necessary...but that is my LAST resort, since I actually want to build something.