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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 18th January 2006, 12:43 AM   #11
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the wall mounted ceiling firing speakers are a interesting idea. i will look into that further for sure.
what about this idea that i hashed out with a fellow audio monkey i work with

Click the image to open in full size.

get 2 wall mounts and build 2 open baffle dipoles using the bollander grabner (sp?) neo3 without the backing so that its dipole and one or two css 4.5" full range drivers

suspend overhead and angle down towards the couch
the girlfriend says as long as its pretty wood i can do it and the artist (her paintings in the background) of the house thinks open baffles "look cool"
as an added bonus if they dont work i still got the front bezel of a box

thoughts

and yes victoria is a great town i love it here. almost as much as i love MSPAINT.
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Old 18th January 2006, 01:04 AM   #12
RAW is offline RAW  Canada
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Well if you must.
I am making a very good call with out a upward firing speaker you will have a full rear effect that is just over powering....

Even with your rear channel set to as low as setting I am sure you will find them to full.
Just my 2 cents!
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Old 18th January 2006, 02:35 AM   #13
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Quote:
I am making a very good call with out a upward firing speaker you will have a full rear effect that is just over powering....
i looked at the frequency responce and it looks to put it mildly, yucky.
i dont know if the big dips are from the room treatment , absorbtion whathaveyou. also the high end must suffer due to the reflection off the wall and ceiling. i would also imagine that there would be some delay as there will be some output from teh box direct to your head below it and then the following reflected sound from above. perhaps it sounds good in practice but on paper and in my mind it doesnt look too appealing. i have +- 10db on both front an rear channels on my amp so that gives me 20db of room to play with levels. my sub is also on a +-10db via the preamp as well as the master volume on the QSC amp. i think that the bafflemight provide more of a pointsource then the wall wedge idea but that the rear output would add a nice holographic deeper sound stage to the speaker with less peaks and valleys due to its direct line to the ear. i think i might try the open baffle, its at the top of my list at this time (could change though) and if it doesnt work the way i think it will then i can very easily modify to another design.
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Old 18th January 2006, 02:43 AM   #14
RAW is offline RAW  Canada
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Yes the frequency response is a measured refected response.
That is very good.
You should see a few di or bi pole in room measured responses.

That measurment was taked after the ceiling reflection out in the room 6 ft.

Like i said i would just try and point a speaker as you have labled its placment any speaker and see if your controls will pad it down enough.
Like I said i am almost 100% sure it will not.
Having done well over 50 installs in small rooms I have not had any luck with a rear speaker that is a direct radiant speaker into a small area.They just are not controlable enough for me.
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Old 18th January 2006, 04:25 AM   #15
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I'll make you a deal. ill build my design and see how it sounds if i cant make it work or sound good ill buy the blueprints for your design off you.

sound like a deal?

cheers

Rob
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Old 18th January 2006, 08:23 AM   #16
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quick question can the neo3 or any other planar/ribbon be mounted in a non vertical orientation?

could it hang from the ceiling?
what about rotate 90*
since the dispersion is not equal for horizontal and vertical could i turn it 90* to better suit my needs?

ive never worked with a ribbon before so i just thought i should check
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Old 18th January 2006, 10:11 AM   #17
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Ribbons are far too directional, as well as complete overkill, for this application, go for a good dome instead.

I have to say, I'm with the RAW guy. Don't worry about the response curves, 95% of the stuff that comes out of rear speakers is ambience or sound effects, and with your limited space you need to diffuse it a little to get any realism. Bear in mind, all these installation guides for AV that recommend direct radiators are working in rooms about 4 times bigger, (or more), than yours.
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Old 18th January 2006, 02:21 PM   #18
RAW is offline RAW  Canada
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Well still lean them back

As far as purcahing a design the GR kit you can purchase from GR we do not sell the kits.

I just pointed you that direction as the AV1RS is designed for room issues like yours.
And if you looked at a samll monitor for the rears and tillt them up I am sure you will be more satisfied with the ambiant surround sound in your size room.
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Old 20th January 2006, 02:53 AM   #19
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ok i just ordered 2 of the GR-t1 tweeters that are on sale from GR. i think i will build both designs the AV-1rs as well as prototype the bipole. thought im going to replace the mid from the av-1rs with the adire extremis. it might make the enclosure a little bigger but i just really want to use these drivers. also it modles a little nicer under bass box pro6. its going to require a different crossover but i can handel that.

whats the concensus on recommended x-over point on the extremis? i was thinking 4.5-5.5K range
12db slope on lowpass and 18db slope on highpass

on a different topic im looking into moding my HT reciever to allow for insert points before the amplifier. IE break the signal path just before entering the amplifier stage and send it to an external processor/eq etc. ive done something similar in my car.

i will keep you all up to date on my progress but due to lack of funds this will probably take place over the next several months or so.
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Old 20th January 2006, 03:02 AM   #20
RAW is offline RAW  Canada
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Good luck with the rears.
Think you will like the design.

Foloow my pictoral I did for Danny and this makes the cabinets easy to build.

This is on the GR forum.
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