outboard xover - enclosed or not? - Page 2

FrankDIY · 23rd October 2002, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill Fitzpatrick
jmpsmash:
Heat is not a problem.

I don't agree, heat change the physical parameters of the crossover components. Heat is a small parameter in the system but it can be as important as other tweeking like teflon wire instead of regular wire or point-to-point wiring instead of using a PCB, etc.

Bill Fitzpatrick · 23rd October 2002, 03:20 AM

Francois:

Please post for all to see the capacitance/inductance/resistance change of typical crossover component values as a function of a reasonable ambient temperature range within a typical enclosure. A series of graphs would be nice but a table will suffice.

Thank you.

Peter Daniel · 23rd October 2002, 05:44 AM

I don't think heat has anything to do here. More the vibrations and resonances. Ever poked your head inside a speaker cabinet while the drivers were playing music? I did, and didn't like it at all.

Also, it's been shown, that even CD players sound better without cover.

pinkmouse · 23rd October 2002, 08:52 AM

I agree with Peter, isolating the crossover components from the vibrations of the driver has a perceptable effect. Since I discovered this I have always mounted my crossovers externally, in non ferrous boxes.

Peter- did you used to stick your head into the bass bins at live shows too?

FrankDIY · 23rd October 2002, 12:12 PM

Interesting discussion.

Everybody has their own opinion on these parameters since it is almost impossible to objectively measure the difference. Sounds different? Maybe. Sound better? [put your answer here].

Heat can be as important as vibration (especially if your connection are loosy

)

mrfeedback · 23rd October 2002, 12:48 PM

François, one advantage of having your crossovers external is that if you have an unearthed soldering iron, you can change crossover values on the fly, and fine tune it much more easily.
Some very expensive loudspeakers run external crossover boxes.

Eric.

FrankDIY · 23rd October 2002, 01:00 PM

Exactly, it is very useful in the debugging and tweaking phase. Also it is a good advantage because you can show the crossover to your others audio freak friends.

navin · 23rd October 2002, 01:02 PM

mrfeedback wrote "change crossover values on the fly"

is this recomended? with solder, wire, othr caps etc. i would prefer to turn the power amp off.

mrfeedback · 23rd October 2002, 01:55 PM

If you add a switch in series with the earth connection to the tip/barrel of your solder iron, and run your amp at low to medium levels and are careful not to cause any short circuits, you can solder in or delete components whilst you are listening and compare the results in real time.
I have done this on circuits for years and no problems.

Eric.

FrankDIY · 23rd October 2002, 02:14 PM

oups, I have never did that real-time

23rd October 2002, 05:44 AM	#13
Peter Daniel diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Toronto, Canada	I don't think heat has anything to do here. More the vibrations and resonances. Ever poked your head inside a speaker cabinet while the drivers were playing music? I did, and didn't like it at all. Also, it's been shown, that even CD players sound better without cover. __________________ www.audiosector.com “Do something really well. See how much time it takes. It might be a product, a work of art, who knows? Then give it away cheaply, just because you feel that it should not cost so much, even if it took a lot of time and expensive materials to make it.” - JC

23rd October 2002, 08:52 AM	#14
pinkmouse diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Chatham, England	I agree with Peter, isolating the crossover components from the vibrations of the driver has a perceptable effect. Since I discovered this I have always mounted my crossovers externally, in non ferrous boxes. Peter- did you used to stick your head into the bass bins at live shows too? __________________ Al I conceive of nothing, in religion, science or philosophy, that is more than the proper thing to wear, for a while. Charles Fort

23rd October 2002, 12:12 PM	#15
FrankDIY diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Montreal	Interesting discussion. Everybody has their own opinion on these parameters since it is almost impossible to objectively measure the difference. Sounds different? Maybe. Sound better? [put your answer here]. Heat can be as important as vibration (especially if your connection are loosy ) __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge. knowledge is limited, imagination encircles the world. Albert Einstein FrankDIY's Audio Corner

23rd October 2002, 12:48 PM	#16
mrfeedback diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Perth, Australia.	A/B Testing On The Fly.... François, one advantage of having your crossovers external is that if you have an unearthed soldering iron, you can change crossover values on the fly, and fine tune it much more easily. Some very expensive loudspeakers run external crossover boxes. Eric.

23rd October 2002, 01:00 PM	#17
FrankDIY diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Montreal	Exactly, it is very useful in the debugging and tweaking phase. Also it is a good advantage because you can show the crossover to your others audio freak friends. __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge. knowledge is limited, imagination encircles the world. Albert Einstein FrankDIY's Audio Corner


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23rd October 2002, 03:20 AM	#12
Bill Fitzpatrick diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Eugene, OR	Francois: Please post for all to see the capacitance/inductance/resistance change of typical crossover component values as a function of a reasonable ambient temperature range within a typical enclosure. A series of graphs would be nice but a table will suffice. Thank you.

23rd October 2002, 01:02 PM	#18
navin diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Mumbai (Bombay), India	mrfeedback wrote "change crossover values on the fly" is this recomended? with solder, wire, othr caps etc. i would prefer to turn the power amp off. __________________ ...still looking for the holy grail.

23rd October 2002, 01:55 PM	#19
mrfeedback diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Perth, Australia.	If you add a switch in series with the earth connection to the tip/barrel of your solder iron, and run your amp at low to medium levels and are careful not to cause any short circuits, you can solder in or delete components whilst you are listening and compare the results in real time. I have done this on circuits for years and no problems. Eric.

23rd October 2002, 02:14 PM	#20
FrankDIY diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Montreal	oups, I have never did that real-time __________________ Imagination is more important than knowledge. knowledge is limited, imagination encircles the world. Albert Einstein FrankDIY's Audio Corner

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