Hello, longtime enthusiast, first time posting. I came up with the idea of a baffless, and time aligned speaker some time ago after studying Dr. D'Appolito's white paper on geometric design. I followed all of his criteria, including 3rd order crossovers @ ~ 1500 Hz (I know that he has since used 4th order). Amazing what can be had (in terms of value) at such low cost. I used the Dayton Euro drivers, and are amazed with their value. I would put these up against the Vince Christian design anyday. They do require a subwoofer crossed at roughly 90Hz in a larger room (such as mine), but are sufficient in the bass region in a 1/8th space environment.
Benefits would be the peerless (pun to be revealed later on) reproduction of recorded effects, detail, and imaging. I've never heard another speaker reproduce so much of what the recording has on it.
Detractors would be a forward midrange, but if seated more than 10 ft. away this isn't so much a problem (a larger inductor used with the woofers woulda helped). Stupid me sealed the crossover section in the tweeter tube (rookie mistake). Sometimes, these speakers are too revealing on poorer recordings such as anything produced by a rap recording label (except by Aftermath).
Please tell me what you think. I give you the Dayton Sound Tubes!
Here's a pic: http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a141/usaftbird/DSC00071.jpg
and another :
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a141/usaftbird/DSC00070.jpg
-Thanks
Benefits would be the peerless (pun to be revealed later on) reproduction of recorded effects, detail, and imaging. I've never heard another speaker reproduce so much of what the recording has on it.
Detractors would be a forward midrange, but if seated more than 10 ft. away this isn't so much a problem (a larger inductor used with the woofers woulda helped). Stupid me sealed the crossover section in the tweeter tube (rookie mistake). Sometimes, these speakers are too revealing on poorer recordings such as anything produced by a rap recording label (except by Aftermath).
Please tell me what you think. I give you the Dayton Sound Tubes!
Here's a pic: http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a141/usaftbird/DSC00071.jpg
and another :
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a141/usaftbird/DSC00070.jpg
-Thanks
I'm a firm believer in baffle-less design as well, it does seem to increase detail and imaging. Nice project, once you get bitten by the DIY bug there is no turning back.
A few of my baffle-less designs
Center Channel
http://kingdaddy.linaeum.com/Center Channel/
Mains
http://kingdaddy.linaeum.com/Mains (SST-8)/
A few of my baffle-less designs
Center Channel
http://kingdaddy.linaeum.com/Center Channel/
Mains
http://kingdaddy.linaeum.com/Mains (SST-8)/
Thanks all for the positve responses. Now, if I only had the woodworking skills of Kingdaddy (wow man)! They're constructed of 6" PVC with pine blocks for the spacers. The PVC was lined with a layer of spray asphalt (makes cats sick), and stuffed with polyfill. The caps are 3/4 MDF.
I would say that the enclosure is now more of an aperiodic membrane type in that they were tuned for a combined F3 of 50Hz, but the tubes still seemed to resonate in the midrange, thus the stuffing. I have to thank Darren Kuzma at Parts Express as I was inspired by his use of PVC on his line arrays (my next project).
I would say that the enclosure is now more of an aperiodic membrane type in that they were tuned for a combined F3 of 50Hz, but the tubes still seemed to resonate in the midrange, thus the stuffing. I have to thank Darren Kuzma at Parts Express as I was inspired by his use of PVC on his line arrays (my next project).
[]0[][]v[][]0 said:
Very interesting, I choose a very similar dampener called “Leak Stopper” which is a tar slurry. It works very well and deadens the enclosures very well.
Good luck and congrats on your project
Leak Stopper (great stuff if you have a few days to let it dry)
http://www.apoc.com/Gardner-5-02/ga-leakstopper.htm
one has to be carefull about diffraction with shape like that
it helps to smooth the edges and putting the speaker off center
http://www.trueaudio.com/st_diff1.htm
ed
it helps to smooth the edges and putting the speaker off center
http://www.trueaudio.com/st_diff1.htm
ed
adason said:
I hear this quite frequently (and read it, too
), but when I built my KatKit speakers, I couldn't hear diffraction problems, nor could I hear baffle-step loss. Please let me make it clear that I believe the science of both, and my baffle-less projects are built knowing that they are compromise projects with respect to diffraction and baffle-step loss, but the results--the results are just phenomenal even as compromises.
Respectfully,
Dave
Diffraction
Yeah, everyone brought this up to me when they saw them at work. I tried felt around the edges, and could hear no difference. I suppose theoretically there might be something, but it's not on the level of my (or anyone who's heard them) hearing. I thought people offset drivers due to baffle step anyway, not baffle diffraction. Thanks again for all the replys.
Yeah, everyone brought this up to me when they saw them at work. I tried felt around the edges, and could hear no difference. I suppose theoretically there might be something, but it's not on the level of my (or anyone who's heard them) hearing. I thought people offset drivers due to baffle step anyway, not baffle diffraction. Thanks again for all the replys.
Re: Diffraction
Don’t worry, there is no diffraction when the baffle is the same size as the driver frame. The link that was posted regards a cylinder with a smaller driver in the middle, which is bad for diffraction. As far as baffle step, I have never had a response to many threads asking this question, no one seems to know how to account for baffle step on a baffle-less design, my guess is that its not necessary in this case, at least my measurements and listening support this.
[]0[][]v[][]0 said:
Don’t worry, there is no diffraction when the baffle is the same size as the driver frame. The link that was posted regards a cylinder with a smaller driver in the middle, which is bad for diffraction. As far as baffle step, I have never had a response to many threads asking this question, no one seems to know how to account for baffle step on a baffle-less design, my guess is that its not necessary in this case, at least my measurements and listening support this.
Cylinder Speakers
Yeah, I read that one by Olson when doing research for these. A sphere is best, was proposed. I suppose if our hearing were perfect, this might be an issue. Seeing as I was an avionics guy that worked around running F-16's for 4 years, I don't think this is an issue for me. I suppose I shouldn't start a flamewar over hearing nerves and how inaccurate they are, so early on in my postings.
Yeah, I read that one by Olson when doing research for these. A sphere is best, was proposed. I suppose if our hearing were perfect, this might be an issue. Seeing as I was an avionics guy that worked around running F-16's for 4 years, I don't think this is an issue for me. I suppose I shouldn't start a flamewar over hearing nerves and how inaccurate they are, so early on in my postings.
wow wow, hold on kneadle, i did not mean to critisize, if it works for you, that's fine with me, i just pointed out to avoid mounting the driver right in the center, plus to avoid sharp edges
whats wrong with that?
i have seen many fr response curves prooving that, no need to get jumpy about believing or not believing in science
ed
whats wrong with that?
i have seen many fr response curves prooving that, no need to get jumpy about believing or not believing in science
ed
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