http://www.tymphany.com/scanspeak/accg.php
What do you guys thinks of these? I have a toddler who has started taking an interest in my drive units. Unfortunatley I don't have grills and I don't really want to be adding grill fixing studs to my cabinets.
Are these grills going to severely affect sound from the mid/woofer? I know that tweeters are more easily damaged but I'm thinking that protecting one driver is better than none. Just how tough are the carbon paper drivers (18W8545)?
Cheers
Al
What do you guys thinks of these? I have a toddler who has started taking an interest in my drive units. Unfortunatley I don't have grills and I don't really want to be adding grill fixing studs to my cabinets.
Are these grills going to severely affect sound from the mid/woofer? I know that tweeters are more easily damaged but I'm thinking that protecting one driver is better than none. Just how tough are the carbon paper drivers (18W8545)?
Cheers
Al
Can't see a problem in terms of protecting your drive-units (always good when there's young children about), but take them off when you're listening. Thin metal in front of a driver = resonance problems and severe ringing. I listened to a pair of Epos M22s a while ago. They have metal grills. Removing them took 2db off the midrange and treble.
Fit your drivers with steel (not stainless) cap head bolts and then get a set of these grilles, source some thin cylindrical magnets that will slot into the allen ket socket of the cap head bolts and epoxy them into the holes in the grille.
the magnets in the grilles will then slot into the cap bolts securing the driver, and the magnetism will hold the grilles on quite nicely, they can just be popped off should you want to listen unobstructed.
the magnets in the grilles will then slot into the cap bolts securing the driver, and the magnetism will hold the grilles on quite nicely, they can just be popped off should you want to listen unobstructed.
I've been installing and using car audio speakers for 15 years and I have yet to find a single situation where a properly installed grill caused any audible changes.
As long as the grill isn't audibly vibrating (which shouldn't be an issue if it's properly installed), it'll be completely transparent.
As long as the grill isn't audibly vibrating (which shouldn't be an issue if it's properly installed), it'll be completely transparent.
assuming the cones on your 8545's are the same as my 8555's, id say theyre pretty tough- whatever they impregnate those cones with seems to make them pretty stiff. Dunno how toddler proof though!
how about making a "sock" for the front of your speakers with grill fabric, with elastic round the edge that fits over the front of the cabinets? then your kiddie wont be able to see the fun shakey things
at least theyre not the lowthers with the big red phase plugs- i cant imagine how interesting theyd be to a toddler! hehehe
how about making a "sock" for the front of your speakers with grill fabric, with elastic round the edge that fits over the front of the cabinets? then your kiddie wont be able to see the fun shakey things
at least theyre not the lowthers with the big red phase plugs- i cant imagine how interesting theyd be to a toddler! hehehe
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I use some similar grills to protect my Supravoxes.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-373
They were attached with four pair of magnets each. Four magnets glued to the speaker and four to the grill:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=329-045
The 18 month monster learned to pull them out so I thought: "if I double the number of magnets he won't have the strenght to pull them". I was wrong. Today he took them off.
I have decided to add a permanently attached grill (either glued or screwed). The protection will only be a thin fabric so I will need to mount the driver on the back to give it more buffer space in case he pushes the grill. This will also give the driver more space to move (these drivers have huge Xmax). I know there'll be some diffraction issues but I have to compromise. The good thing is that I'm using Fostex horn tweeters on the top which are solid metal and I won't need to cover them.
Don't underestimate your kid. They're smarter than us.
xavier
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-373
They were attached with four pair of magnets each. Four magnets glued to the speaker and four to the grill:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=329-045
The 18 month monster learned to pull them out so I thought: "if I double the number of magnets he won't have the strenght to pull them". I was wrong. Today he took them off.
I have decided to add a permanently attached grill (either glued or screwed). The protection will only be a thin fabric so I will need to mount the driver on the back to give it more buffer space in case he pushes the grill. This will also give the driver more space to move (these drivers have huge Xmax). I know there'll be some diffraction issues but I have to compromise. The good thing is that I'm using Fostex horn tweeters on the top which are solid metal and I won't need to cover them.
Don't underestimate your kid. They're smarter than us.
xavier
Jim85IROC said:
I'd have to agree with this - a/d/s, a high-end maker, has used perforated metal grills on many of their home speakers for years.
A metal grill on a large home speaker has a lot of surface area, and would seem to have a lot more potential to "ring" than a much smaller, round automotive grill.
Also, many of these round grills are made of a mesh material - like a stiff woven screen, rather than a flat piece of metal with holes punched in it; add to this a curved or contoured shape (as the ScanSpeaks do) and you probably have a lot of resistance to (audible) flexure.
ShinOBIWAN said:
Interesting you mentioned that - I remember a thread awhile back where someone mentioned a significant rise in measured FR in at least one of their woofs, and it was traced to the screen! Accuton actually claimed it was a "flaw" in the measuring equipment.
So I guess the jury is still out on this. Perhaps it boils down to attention to detail of the individual manufacturer in testing/addressing this; some metal grills probably do cause an audible "anomaly", while others don't, depending on design, materials, the driver they are used with, etc.
It just goes to show there's almost nothing that's ever black and white in this business, which is why you have to test everything and take no component or design detail for granted.
sdclc126 said:
Nah, the accuton screens are about as transparent as it gets, 1000's of happy owners. There's also a few independant test of the accuton drivers around the web, none report the screen as giving any problems that I've seen.
Its funny that virtually every design that incorporates the accuton stuff is hailed as a reference, yet the grills are still there.
I don't own any accuton drivers BTW
But I do think they test and sound fantastic.
ShinOBIWAN said:
Nah, the accuton screens are about as transparent as it gets, 1000's of happy owners. There's also a few independant test of the accuton drivers around the web, none report the screen as giving any problems that I've seen.
Its funny that virtually every design that incorporates the accuton stuff is hailed as a reference, yet the grills are still there.
I don't own any accuton drivers BTW
Yes, all good points; I actually wasn't referring to the other thread as truth, just a "story" I heard, and those seem to get thrown around a lot too.
For some reason there seems to be a lot of criticism about those Accuton drivers, mainly the high price. Could be envy - "I can't afford them, therfore I'm going to find a reason why I wouldn't buy them if I could."
And yet, as you point out, they measure and sound about as good as it gets, according to those who have measured and listened to them. I hope to some day have the pleasure. I can't imagine them being used in the many costly commercial speakers they are found in if they didn't have something quite exceptional going for them.
I'm forced to go in for a grill protection after a considerable duration of grill-less listening.
A couple of weeks ago, a visitor's child poked through my tweeter(metal cone) with her syringe-like index finger right in front of me.
Her speed and precision was amazing for a kid of 3 and a half years.
A mesh type grill is preferred over a punched plate type(lesser reflections).
I'll bend the mesh on four sides and push it through a ridge(lined with rubber) made on the baffle.
In future I could fix the drinks in peace without having to stand guard over my lovlies.
A couple of weeks ago, a visitor's child poked through my tweeter(metal cone) with her syringe-like index finger right in front of me.
Her speed and precision was amazing for a kid of 3 and a half years.
A mesh type grill is preferred over a punched plate type(lesser reflections).
I'll bend the mesh on four sides and push it through a ridge(lined with rubber) made on the baffle.
In future I could fix the drinks in peace without having to stand guard over my lovlies.
sdclc126 said:
No worries sd,
They almost certainly add something(distortion) to the sound but for purposes of a loudspeakers they are as good as it gets.
The best way is no grills at all of course but sometimes that's impossible. My personal feeling are that, for bass/mid frequencies, the differences are hard measure when done correctly let alone audible hinder the reproduction. High frequencies are another thing and are much more easily attenuated.
I think the Accuton stuff does got a bad rep because of the status and the price. But I tend to listen to well respected folks like Tony G, Zaph and other passionate folks. Anyone can say something is rubbish without even hearing it.
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