Don't want to spend the big bucks and feel I can do better with less money. Nuff said there! I'd like to build at least 5.1 system possible 6.1 or 7.1 expansion). The system is part of a bonus room, HT, I'm finishing out. The room is roughly 15' x 22'. I'd like to build 4 2-ways with a sub and MTM center channel. I looking at movies and music to be played thru the system. Any suggestions to start with? Tweeters? mids? woofs? XOs, active or passive? Active for sub probably? Vented or sealed? I am adept in circuit building and carpentery. No worry there. 
Are there contraints on the box size?
Do you want 6.5", 5.25" woofers or...?
Do you want dome tweeters or...?
What amp will you be using?
Have you decidied on the woofer driver yet?
Lots of information required before we can help you much further.
In regards to the MTM centre. It's not necessary, you can just build another of the L&R units. My take on those is that for a centre channel you can't just sell the public one half a pair of speakers for a centre channel. Hmmm...what shall we do? I know, let's add another M and sell them specifically as centre channel speakers. Eureka what a genius! Another thing to sell joe public. They'll never figure it out.
One of the advantages of having the centre the same as the others is that you can swap them around every so often to ensure equal usage over the years.
Cal
Do you want 6.5", 5.25" woofers or...?
Do you want dome tweeters or...?
What amp will you be using?
Have you decidied on the woofer driver yet?
Lots of information required before we can help you much further.
In regards to the MTM centre. It's not necessary, you can just build another of the L&R units. My take on those is that for a centre channel you can't just sell the public one half a pair of speakers for a centre channel. Hmmm...what shall we do? I know, let's add another M and sell them specifically as centre channel speakers. Eureka what a genius! Another thing to sell joe public. They'll never figure it out.
One of the advantages of having the centre the same as the others is that you can swap them around every so often to ensure equal usage over the years.
Cal
I have not decided on any of the woofers or tweeters. I have looked at some: tweeters w/spl around 90, 91 and woofers about 3dB down from there. Basically, thumb through the Madisound and Parts Express wish books. Based on my room size will 6.5" woof benefit over a 5.25"? As far as the center, are you suggesting a 2-way maybe with a different xo (or all 5 identical)? Box size, I'd like to keep med-to-small, that may mean 5.25s". Does this also bode well for vented over sealed? For surround effects (dbx, dolby, thx, etc) do I need to setup the rear L&R xo different or just let the rx processor work its magic?
XOtothelight said:
All five identical or all seven if that's in your future.
All speakers should be identical.
OK, so go look at what you can afford and get back to us with some choices. The next step will be the XO. Premade or diy? Have you done them before? XO's can be tricky.
Oh, and the Denon will be fine.
Vance Dickason uses audax AP130Z0 mated with morel MDT40's in his home theater project at the end of the LSDC 6th edition....
edit: I should probably mention that the fronts and center were both MTM's in that project....
though you may wish to use a cheaper tweeter as 5 of them may start to blow the budget
he actually uses completely different drivers for the rears which have dual side firing tweeters.... not everyones cup of tea
for the sub he used this the parts express Titanic
at the end of the project he estimates you would need to spend $2000 or more on a comercialy available system to equal it.
might give you some ideas....
Tony.
edit: I should probably mention that the fronts and center were both MTM's in that project....
though you may wish to use a cheaper tweeter as 5 of them may start to blow the budget
he actually uses completely different drivers for the rears which have dual side firing tweeters.... not everyones cup of tea
for the sub he used this the parts express Titanic
at the end of the project he estimates you would need to spend $2000 or more on a comercialy available system to equal it.
might give you some ideas....
Tony.
I'll throw in my suggestion .
5 X http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=4671630.26597&pid=1961
Mad will do the XO's or do 'em yourself. The EXACT same speaker with very uniform power response at each channel. No MT or MTM or whatever. Near point source. Nice drive unit from SEAS. You could face the rears pointed upwards or tilted back for more diffuse coverage (since it would be a monopole)
Thats about $600.
1 (or 2 if you want to go nuts/over budget) X http://yellow.mynethost.com/~bv1263...id=53&osCsid=d2c4bfa0429da320a1e295e0aea6952c
$180
Possible amp: http://www.oaudio.com/500W_SUBAMP.html
$240. A little over budget, but it would rock the house. Parametric EQ is just dandy .
My 2 cents.
Cheers, good luck
AJ
5 X http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=4671630.26597&pid=1961
Mad will do the XO's or do 'em yourself. The EXACT same speaker with very uniform power response at each channel. No MT or MTM or whatever. Near point source. Nice drive unit from SEAS. You could face the rears pointed upwards or tilted back for more diffuse coverage (since it would be a monopole)
Thats about $600.
1 (or 2 if you want to go nuts/over budget) X http://yellow.mynethost.com/~bv1263...id=53&osCsid=d2c4bfa0429da320a1e295e0aea6952c
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
$180
Possible amp: http://www.oaudio.com/500W_SUBAMP.html
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
$240. A little over budget, but it would rock the house. Parametric EQ is just dandy
.My 2 cents.
Cheers, good luck
AJ
Grahamt's last comments: Don't have any measuring equipment. I had planned on taking the manufacturers word on driver spec for inclusion into the design equations.
wintermute (Tony): I'm currently going through Dickason's book now. I've also looked through some of Dr. Leach's projects from GA Tech. On LSDC, the MTM is interesting considering a number of sources and board member recommend commonality in the setup.
AJ: Thanks for your input. I'm also floating the idea of building the amp for the sub myself.
Vifa, Seas, Morel, Peerless, Audax, etc. which gives the most bang for the $$ and still end up with quality? Which line within a brand new should I stick with, and as far as matching drivers, is it better to stay with one manufacturer or not an issue?
XOs, Madisound (Leap), how good are their designs vs. crunching the numbers and choosing the components (and tweaking)?
As far as price, I've seen some respectable 5.1 systems for around 1200-1600, ideally I think I can diy for $1k or less. That would be my price point.
wintermute (Tony): I'm currently going through Dickason's book now. I've also looked through some of Dr. Leach's projects from GA Tech. On LSDC, the MTM is interesting considering a number of sources and board member recommend commonality in the setup.
AJ: Thanks for your input. I'm also floating the idea of building the amp for the sub myself.
Vifa, Seas, Morel, Peerless, Audax, etc. which gives the most bang for the $$ and still end up with quality? Which line within a brand new should I stick with, and as far as matching drivers, is it better to stay with one manufacturer or not an issue?
XOs, Madisound (Leap), how good are their designs vs. crunching the numbers and choosing the components (and tweaking)?
As far as price, I've seen some respectable 5.1 systems for around 1200-1600, ideally I think I can diy for $1k or less. That would be my price point.
XOtothelight said:
That is what I suspected. I highly suggest you do not go that route. That was the advice given to me when I started here. To design your own crossovers you really need to measure the drivers yourself and model the crossover in a software program. Then build, listen, remeasure and tweak. SpeakerWorkshop is a good free design program.
I just dont want you to waste your time or money.
Dont trust manufacturers specs, and dont use the textbook equations.
Here are some the drivers I've looked at:\
Tweeter
Vifa-D27TG-35-06
-DX195SD-05-04
-MG27SG29-04
-PL27TG05
-TC26TG05
Mid
Peerless HDS (series - not specific yet)
Vifa-D26NC
Seas-27TBCFG
One thing I didn't verify was shielding. Any center and front L&R will need to be shielded (and sub probably).
Tweeter
Vifa-D27TG-35-06
-DX195SD-05-04
-MG27SG29-04
-PL27TG05
-TC26TG05
Mid
Peerless HDS (series - not specific yet)
Vifa-D26NC
Seas-27TBCFG
One thing I didn't verify was shielding. Any center and front L&R will need to be shielded (and sub probably).
Okay, after further review .....
Tweeter:
Morel MDT33 or MDT40
Mid:
Morel MW168 or Peerless 850439 (6.5") or Vifa P17SJ-00-08
Sub:
NHT 1259 or HiVi F12 either with a power amp.
Any suggestions? The pairing? Vented vs. sealed? I haven't attempted to crunch any numbers yet. I'll stick with a passive XO on the 2-way, any suggestions on order and type?
Tweeter:
Morel MDT33 or MDT40
Mid:
Morel MW168 or Peerless 850439 (6.5") or Vifa P17SJ-00-08
Sub:
NHT 1259 or HiVi F12 either with a power amp.
Any suggestions? The pairing? Vented vs. sealed? I haven't attempted to crunch any numbers yet. I'll stick with a passive XO on the 2-way, any suggestions on order and type?
hehehe I think you have revised your budget????
anyway one observation the peerless looks like a nice driver but doesn't appear to be sheilded, which could be a problem.
I assume you have chosen the MW168 over the MW166 because of it's slightly higher sensitivity?? one thing to be aware of is that its xmax is only 3.5mm compared to the MW166 which is 4.25mm.... might not be an issue depending on how low you want to cross to your subs, and what levels you will be listening at.
If you decide on Morel for the midbass, then I'd consider the new uniflow baskets, they look a major improvement over the baskets on the older woofers... I'm starting to think that the big dip I see at around 2Khz with my MW144's is due to the basket. the MW166's and MW168's both come in the new uniflow range.... don't know what sort of additional cost it is though.
if you haven't seen it you might want to check out the LDSG site. It has a lot of information on a lot of drivers, not all good drivers are on it, but quite a lot are
anyway one observation the peerless looks like a nice driver but doesn't appear to be sheilded, which could be a problem.
I assume you have chosen the MW168 over the MW166 because of it's slightly higher sensitivity?? one thing to be aware of is that its xmax is only 3.5mm compared to the MW166 which is 4.25mm.... might not be an issue depending on how low you want to cross to your subs, and what levels you will be listening at.
If you decide on Morel for the midbass, then I'd consider the new uniflow baskets, they look a major improvement over the baskets on the older woofers... I'm starting to think that the big dip I see at around 2Khz with my MW144's is due to the basket. the MW166's and MW168's both come in the new uniflow range.... don't know what sort of additional cost it is though.
if you haven't seen it you might want to check out the LDSG site. It has a lot of information on a lot of drivers, not all good drivers are on it, but quite a lot are
Thanks for the response. My budget .... is somewhat floating. I didn't what appear to barebones and I'm willing to pay a little more for capability. I must have overlooked the Peerless shielding. I have have been to the LDSG site. That's probably where I got most of the compairitive data I used. As much as I'd like to have 5.1 right off the bat, I think I could get by on 2.1 and add on.
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