Prices, in general

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
Just another Moderator
Joined 2003
Paid Member
planet10 said:


In the end it is about the music, and to my mind the one that does the best job of conveying the emotion of the music is the winner. Now you have to hook yourself up to a brain wave monitor to even hope to measure that. An MRI would probably be even better, but they haven't made one yet that can be used and let you listen to the hifi simultaneously.

dave

Hi Dave,

perhaps a simpler measurement would be noting wether you get goose bumps, the hair on the back of your neck or arms stands up, or you get a shiver running down your spine ;) I find these to be good indicators :)

Tony.
 
planet10 said:


All useful tools for the designer, but unfortunately a lot of the tests that would be required to "prove" a speaker just don't exist yet... so after all that we are left with our ears.

dave

Problem is, maybe all those tests are great and we still think our ears are better than them, subjectivity... placebo... you name it, we will never know.

I agree that we will see better testing methodology in the future.
 
planet10 said:
In the end it is about the music, and to my mind the one that does the best job of conveying the emotion of the music is the winner. Now you have to hook yourself up to a brain wave monitor to even hope to measure that. An MRI would probably be even better, but they haven't made one yet that can be used and let you listen to the hifi simultaneously.

dave

That would be hard since everyone interpret the emotion differently so we would need to put the person at the concert listening to the orchestra, then compare the MRI result with the same person at home listening to the same orchestra over speakers hehe! And then, find the speakers who bring the results closer. Some speakers that add pleasant sounds like 2nd HD might have better results, again we have placebo and all and might find speakers that will give your more emotions than it was intended...
 
Not all emotions while listening to music are good.

It'd have to be correlated with the song, that is, when I listen to Beethoven's 6th Symphony, when the rain is coming down, I don't want to feel angry that it sounds so bad, but that's my normal emotion because of very few recordings of this do it for me, LOL.
 
simon5 said:
So Zaph needs to add a Radian 475PB compression driver to the list besides the Accuton D20 tweeter...

I hope you mean compression driver when talking about compression tweeter? Tell me if I'm wrong.
That would be a start, though Radian's reputation is for replacement diaphragms and not compression drivers, isn't it? I was thinking more along the lines of JBL and TAD.

Yes, I did mean compression driver in the typical sense, but there are bass compression drivers too.
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
simon5 said:
That would be hard since everyone interpret the emotion differently

That is why a hifi is a very personal thing.

so we would need to put the person at the concert listening to the orchestra

That won't work either because what is on the record isn't close to what is in the hall.

It all comes down to you the listener enjoying the music.

And you have singled out the speaker. I am very much a believer that in a system where everything is important, the speaker is the least important. That confuses a lot of people, because the speaker is the most inaccurate device in the chain (i guess we could put mic & TT in here too), but its aberations are usually the most natural ones, so our brain can more easily dismiss it and get thru it to the music.

In a world where we can maybe get 10% of what is in a live unamplified event, what 10% do you pick? The goal of re-producing the event as "accuarately" as possible is a red herring. We are so far away from that goal that it is a pretty nebulous goal.

dave
 
It is true... I was at a concert for the Ten Tenors this weekend and I thought to myself... Wow this sounds really good, I wonder what kind of speakers they are using, and then I realized, hey dofus you are in the front row, all the speakers are hanging behind you.. You are hearing them actually sing...

LOL
 
I have not heard the two speakers you mention early in the thread so I cannot comment on their performance. But let me point out two or three alternatives that are a fraction of your budget.

1. A ML TQWT using a Fostex FE-167E which will probably cost about $300 total.

2. A ML TL using either a Fostex FE-207E or a FE-206E which will probably cost about $400 total.

3. A ML TL using one of the Lowther drivers which will start at about $700 and can exceed your budget depending on the model driver selected.

I am assuming that you have not built many pairs of speakers before and that you do not have the measurement equipment needed to optimize the design for your room/system. Crossovers are expensive and will kill a design if not done right, I speak from experience. A full range driver system will work with any amp/reciever (not just with tubes) and the required correction circuit is cheap and easy to adjust by ear. The sound will be like nothing you have heard from a multiway system.

The down side is that they beam which for critical listening in the sweet spot is not an issue. They sound best with acoustic music but will do OK with the type of stuff my kids usually play, my Fostex FE-208E Sigma ML TLs have taken many an acoustic beating from my three kids.

Bottom line :

Less expensive.

High performance.

Easily adjustable to rebalance the SPL response for personel taste/room/system.

Simple to build right the first time (idiot proof).

Excellent for acoustic music, will do popular music.

Will not produce floor shaking bass but will do credible job down to 40 Hz.

Probably will not reach as high as a good tweeter but again will do a credible job.

Again, it will be like nothing you have heard before.
 
For the dollars you mention, I would spend as much on the speakers as possible even if that turns out to be over 75% of the total system cost. You get what you pay for and the speaker will be the limiting component. Fancy electronics will not make up for poor speaker performance. Electronic crossover and multiple amps will be expensive and complicated, spend the money on great speaker drivers. Keep it simple or you will end up with a mess.
 
Because I was thinking about scrapping them and moving on, I don't mean to waste anyones time. All I know is I want something better than my Polk R30s I have right now, because they sound like crap.

If I could make a project for 1000 that would keep me satisfied, I would do it, if not, I was thinking of making a design for 300 dollars to tide me over, which was the original intent of this thread.

Bryan
 
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.