A friend who knows nothing about audio asked me to suggest a speaker system that’s simple, great, small and cheap. Yes, pretty broad. 
The original idea was a pair of CSS WR125 full rangers, with supposedly fantastic bass wrt their size, due to XBL. (www.creativesound.ca/pdf/WR125S.PDF)
6 mm Xmax, in say 10 litre (0.4 cu ft) boxes tuned to 50-60 Hz.
Two not so good points are modest 87 dB efficiency, and the treble is supposedly just average.
. . then he added “and good for parties”
here’s what I thought of:
> c. 120 Hz Fostex 166E (www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=1589306.10833&pid=324)
With similar power handling to the CSS and 7 db more sensitivity, it should cover the parties’ requirement in his large room much better.
However it’s Xmax is only 0.6 mm, so to give great bass in a small box: -
< 120 Hz A single Peerless XLS 10 with a plate amp.
With Qts of only 0.17 it will work well in a small box.
What do you think?
The original idea was a pair of CSS WR125 full rangers, with supposedly fantastic bass wrt their size, due to XBL. (www.creativesound.ca/pdf/WR125S.PDF)
6 mm Xmax, in say 10 litre (0.4 cu ft) boxes tuned to 50-60 Hz.
Two not so good points are modest 87 dB efficiency, and the treble is supposedly just average.
. . then he added “and good for parties”
here’s what I thought of:
> c. 120 Hz Fostex 166E (www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=1589306.10833&pid=324)
With similar power handling to the CSS and 7 db more sensitivity, it should cover the parties’ requirement in his large room much better.
However it’s Xmax is only 0.6 mm, so to give great bass in a small box: -
< 120 Hz A single Peerless XLS 10 with a plate amp.
With Qts of only 0.17 it will work well in a small box.
What do you think?
Thanks Jeff, it and all my other posts looks fine from here.
(So the weird apostrophe syndrome is broader than I thought).
My apologies, fellow diyaudio-ers.
Is this (RTF) without them? :
A friend who knows nothing about audio asked me to suggest a speaker system that’s simple, great, small and cheap. Yes, pretty broad.
The original idea was a pair of CSS WR125 full rangers, with supposedly fantastic bass wrt their size, due to XBL. (www.creativesound.ca/pdf/WR125S.PDF)
6 mm Xmax, in say 10 litre (0.4 cu ft) boxes tuned to 50-60 Hz.
Two not so good points are modest 87 dB efficiency, and the treble is supposedly just average.
. . then he added “and good for parties”
here’s what I thought of:
> c. 120 Hz Fostex 166E (www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi...6.10833&pid=324)
With similar power handling to the CSS and 7 db more sensitivity, it should cover the parties’ requirement in his large room much better.
However it’s Xmax is only 0.6 mm, so to give great bass in a small box: -
< 120 Hz A single Peerless XLS 10 with a plate amp.
With Qts of only 0.17 it will work well in a small box.
What do you think?
Thanks
(So the weird apostrophe syndrome is broader than I thought).
My apologies, fellow diyaudio-ers.
Is this (RTF) without them? :
A friend who knows nothing about audio asked me to suggest a speaker system that’s simple, great, small and cheap. Yes, pretty broad.
The original idea was a pair of CSS WR125 full rangers, with supposedly fantastic bass wrt their size, due to XBL. (www.creativesound.ca/pdf/WR125S.PDF)
6 mm Xmax, in say 10 litre (0.4 cu ft) boxes tuned to 50-60 Hz.
Two not so good points are modest 87 dB efficiency, and the treble is supposedly just average.
. . then he added “and good for parties”
here’s what I thought of:
> c. 120 Hz Fostex 166E (www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi...6.10833&pid=324)
With similar power handling to the CSS and 7 db more sensitivity, it should cover the parties’ requirement in his large room much better.
However it’s Xmax is only 0.6 mm, so to give great bass in a small box: -
< 120 Hz A single Peerless XLS 10 with a plate amp.
With Qts of only 0.17 it will work well in a small box.
What do you think?
Thanks
With the "good for parties" requirement, the 2 Pi (in either bookshelf or tower configuration) kit comes to mind. It uses the Eminence Alpha 10 woofer and Vifa DX25 tweeter. Rated 95dB.
http://www.pispeakers.com/AvailableComponents.htm#Studio
http://www.pispeakers.com/Prices.htm
Given your location, getting the kit from Wayne would be problematic, but you could probably reverse-engineer something very similar. I'd keep the crossover outside the box for easy tweaks, how good you nail the deets will be the real deal-breaker.
What you described with the FE166E is very similar to the "SEX-y speaker" design that Bottlehead recommends for its SEX amp:
http://www.bottlehead.com/loosep/S.E.Xy speakers.html
Essentially FE167E (better than 166 for this app) in a sealed cabinet, with inexpensive stereo subs for ~140Hz on down. IMO you could get away with a single sub, on the other hand that puts more stress on the sub.
http://www.pispeakers.com/AvailableComponents.htm#Studio
http://www.pispeakers.com/Prices.htm
Given your location, getting the kit from Wayne would be problematic, but you could probably reverse-engineer something very similar. I'd keep the crossover outside the box for easy tweaks, how good you nail the deets will be the real deal-breaker.
What you described with the FE166E is very similar to the "SEX-y speaker" design that Bottlehead recommends for its SEX amp:
http://www.bottlehead.com/loosep/S.E.Xy speakers.html
Essentially FE167E (better than 166 for this app) in a sealed cabinet, with inexpensive stereo subs for ~140Hz on down. IMO you could get away with a single sub, on the other hand that puts more stress on the sub.
Before hand wringing about the FR125's low efficiency too much, what sort of amp will your friend using?
I think the greater bass will help the CSS driver in parties given a small box over more efficient stuff once sufficient power is present. With a 30 watt + amp I dont see much point of a high efficiency driver in a small box given that it will run out of steam from overexcursion long before its RMS current limits are reached. This comment only really applies in the case of small speakers.
Going somewhat bigger and spendier, how about the Adire HE 10.1 Mk II setup? More bass thanks to having a ten inch coax, and still good efficiency.
I think the greater bass will help the CSS driver in parties given a small box over more efficient stuff once sufficient power is present. With a 30 watt + amp I dont see much point of a high efficiency driver in a small box given that it will run out of steam from overexcursion long before its RMS current limits are reached. This comment only really applies in the case of small speakers.
Going somewhat bigger and spendier, how about the Adire HE 10.1 Mk II setup? More bass thanks to having a ten inch coax, and still good efficiency.
Dumbass
An Eminence Alpha 10 could well be better than a single Fostex, however with a Qts of 0.59 it would be bigger than FE166E satellites and Peerless Qts 0.17.
You’d need to cross the 10 incher at no more than about 2000 Hz to prevent beaming, but the Vifa would handle that.
Subject to WAF, interesting idea.
I agree you could get away with a single sub, if it has good power handling. Mmm, Bottlehead uses the FE167E in a *sealed cabinet. Anyone know why sealed?
PS I hope the winter has lifted a little down there? *real
Only a few days ago I was saying you would want the Net down there (& lotsa good CDs) to deal with the conditions.
Cheers
Tweeker
What amp? very good question. Just a crappy 25 odd watts 15 yo Sony receiver. If it had more grunt yes the FR125s would work better.
The Adire HE 10.1 seems a very good package. I don’t think it’d have the extension of an XLS 10 with 12 mm Xmax and an Fs of 19 Hz, but it would have more cohesiveness than sats + sub.
Probabaly time to revisit my buddy
Cheers
An Eminence Alpha 10 could well be better than a single Fostex, however with a Qts of 0.59 it would be bigger than FE166E satellites and Peerless Qts 0.17.
You’d need to cross the 10 incher at no more than about 2000 Hz to prevent beaming, but the Vifa would handle that.
Subject to WAF, interesting idea.
I agree you could get away with a single sub, if it has good power handling. Mmm, Bottlehead uses the FE167E in a *sealed cabinet. Anyone know why sealed?
PS I hope the winter has lifted a little down there? *real
Only a few days ago I was saying you would want the Net down there (& lotsa good CDs) to deal with the conditions.
Cheers
Tweeker
What amp? very good question. Just a crappy 25 odd watts 15 yo Sony receiver. If it had more grunt yes the FR125s would work better.
The Adire HE 10.1 seems a very good package. I don’t think it’d have the extension of an XLS 10 with 12 mm Xmax and an Fs of 19 Hz, but it would have more cohesiveness than sats + sub.
Probabaly time to revisit my buddy
Cheers
The Fostex 166E resonance is 50 Hz, so if you cross ay 120 Hz, no difference. Maybe it’s simply that a sealed box is simpler to build.
> With stereo subs, the sealed cabs go low enough.
Should do
> I use FE207E in vented cabs, I like them, but I don't know if I would call them "party" speakers
I don't think he wants to split his 52 yo ears ~ how loud do your FE207Es go?
> With stereo subs, the sealed cabs go low enough.
Should do
> I use FE207E in vented cabs, I like them, but I don't know if I would call them "party" speakers
I don't think he wants to split his 52 yo ears ~ how loud do your FE207Es go?
I have a 11L BR tuned to about 50hz with the FR125's.
It is my suggestion that you go with larger drivers, these sound clean at listening levels, but a party will need volume and air pressure that a larger driver can do. 2-way with a powered sub if you can afford it.
Once you start hitting the excursion limits of the FR125, it starts to chuff air between the coil and the phase plug. The low efficency starts to work against you when you throw more wattage, as the driver will give out before your ears will.
This is assuming a full living-room of bodies absorbing sound also.
In my living room, on 100w RMS from a Solid State consumer amp, the speakers overextend before my ears give out. But I don't throw parties and turn it up that loud ever.
I don't have a replacement driver suggestion, as others will be more experienced to answer that. My own judgement is to just not use the FR125's for a party, they aren't that kind of girl.
EDIT: FR125's, not WR125's
It is my suggestion that you go with larger drivers, these sound clean at listening levels, but a party will need volume and air pressure that a larger driver can do. 2-way with a powered sub if you can afford it.
Once you start hitting the excursion limits of the FR125, it starts to chuff air between the coil and the phase plug. The low efficency starts to work against you when you throw more wattage, as the driver will give out before your ears will.
This is assuming a full living-room of bodies absorbing sound also.
In my living room, on 100w RMS from a Solid State consumer amp, the speakers overextend before my ears give out. But I don't throw parties and turn it up that loud ever.
I don't have a replacement driver suggestion, as others will be more experienced to answer that. My own judgement is to just not use the FR125's for a party, they aren't that kind of girl.
EDIT: FR125's, not WR125's
Another thought, if your friend knows nothing about audio, they are more likely to not play nice and easy with the gear or notice the nuances of diffence in a range of similar drivers. They just want it to crank when cranked, and sound good when relaxing. Not hard to accomplish on the cheap.
I would go for a well-respected, efficent full ranger (or 2-way) sealed build , and build the powered sub.
Make sure the drivers can handle the excursion at the volume/wattage expected.
Whether you used fostex or css is not the key goal here. Any cheap driver that is recommended here will sound amazing to their ears anyways.
I would go for a well-respected, efficent full ranger (or 2-way) sealed build , and build the powered sub.
Make sure the drivers can handle the excursion at the volume/wattage expected.
Whether you used fostex or css is not the key goal here. Any cheap driver that is recommended here will sound amazing to their ears anyways.
rick57 said:
No...
and yes.
For some reason Internet Explorer want's to autoselect a Japanese character set when I access this page. When it does, only your posts have the apostrophes converted to Japanese characters. If I switch the encoding to Western European, the apostrophes look normal. (To switch the encoding, right click on the page and select the encoding menu option.)
The text you are pasting in from your editor is not standard ASCII text, which is why it is doing this here and on other forums.
The fostex, but honestly, I havn't personally built enough different systems to give an opinion that would be anything but speculation. I am sure there are others who can recommend better than I.
I suggest a 2-way because for a party, your going to need bigger driver than a 4.5", which is where the full rangers stop as far as high end SQ.
Once again, I refer to Zaph:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/
If I did have to recommend a full ranger, (and were looking for cheap) use a sealed 7L box with a Aurasound NS-193.
Make a powered sub and cross the NS over HIGH for volume, lower for SQ.
Your sub will make the party, the problem is making a set of mains that can keep up when cranked and not bottom out.
I suggest a 2-way because for a party, your going to need bigger driver than a 4.5", which is where the full rangers stop as far as high end SQ.
Once again, I refer to Zaph:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/
If I did have to recommend a full ranger, (and were looking for cheap) use a sealed 7L box with a Aurasound NS-193.
Make a powered sub and cross the NS over HIGH for volume, lower for SQ.
Your sub will make the party, the problem is making a set of mains that can keep up when cranked and not bottom out.
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