Help! With a rear horn loaded scoop bass bin - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 5th October 2002, 12:52 PM   #11
MJK is offline MJK  United States
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If you want to try some free front loaded horn design software you can find a MathCad model on my website. I have checked the model against HornResp and AJ Horn and it correlates very well. The advantage to using my MathCad worksheet is that I believe it gives a little more general flexibility in the horn geometry.

Martin
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Old 5th October 2002, 12:56 PM   #12
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I don't really have any qualms about the capitalisation. However there is a certain attitude expressed sentences such as
Quote:
PLEASE DO NOT WASTE MY TIME WITH SITES WITH HORN PLANS THAT DO NOT REACH MY REQUIRMENTS
which do not come across as kind. I realize that you may have some obligation towards this DJ and that you want to get this person the best you can, but by showing brash behaviour like that you are only detracting potentially useful posters from investing time (= money/ time spent with family/ studies/etc) in thinking out useful responses and putting them into words effectively.

People will visit threads which they think warrant their attention. I think there is little need to market one's post and I know many people who as a rule wouldn't show an interest in people who don't at least show basic understanding of principles of mutual respect.

Another hint : Search. The seach capabilities of this forum are by no means the most powerful, but a little time and effort will in many cases come up with useful information, even if one has to browse through the result set a little.

English is by no means my strength and as such I have a world of understanding when it comes to people with difficulty to express their thoughts.

In this thread (If you don't think trolling is destructive ), Ken L posted a link to what trolling was all about. Having a look at that page I found an excellent guide to posting on the web and can be found under : http://members.aol.com/intwg/ .

Before you post, give your post a little thought and structure it into logical, bite-sized chunks which follow logically on one another. Cut out what is not nessecary. Put the most important information towards the beginning or end of the end of your (short)paragraphs. That way people who are quickly browsing through a longish post will get the essence of what you're trying to say.

Only my 2c

Martin
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Old 5th October 2002, 01:22 PM   #13
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slicemaster101, do your friend have any specs about max sound level?

15" speaker can take rather lot of power and amps are rather cheap. What about a closed box or a bass reflex?

If you are looking for a horn with high efficiency, I have a hunch of that you need a straight one (not folded).

Some calculation.

15" = 96 dB SPL at 1 m and 1 W (closed box)
Amp = 500 W

== 96 + (30 - 3) = 123 dB
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Old 6th October 2002, 01:59 AM   #14
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I donít know much about horns I canít say for sure what is required in this instance. In other words I donít know what type of horn would be used for a given situation. As some of you might know I have been tinkering with HiFi for some time now and I know that a sealed sub would probably get the job done indoors for my friend but from personal experience sealed and bass reflex do not react well to wide open spaces, such as ones in a park festival or a large outdoor party. I do not believe that amps are cheap, but I agree that it does take quite a bit of juice to drive some 15ís. High efficiency in pa as I understand it is a given. I know most horns such, as the Lab Horn that has been referenced many time through out this thread is very efficient. As for what type of horn he needs to reach his requirements, I donít have the slightest idea what kind he needs. That is why I am here and asking questions and presenting his situation to you as a community who I know can help me with my problem because I have had great success in the past.

Sincerely,
Slice

Mgoedeke thank you for those sites:-)
Peranders thanks for the idea but I donít believe that a sealed or bass reflex design will be suitable for his various situations, but thank you for the presenting the possibility:-)
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Old 7th October 2002, 04:11 AM   #15
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Default well,

well, not new posts today but i am shure you guys have better things to do then help he on a weekend so thats ok.

well i'll check back tomorrow,
Slice
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Old 7th October 2002, 06:36 AM   #16
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Slice,

These horns are known as J-bins and are very well suited to the job your friend needs them for. I have used them extensively in sound reinforcement applications ranging from live bands to recorded music and particularly dance music.

I agree that they may not go much below 40Hz, but I think it is the "right" kind of Bass that you are looking for. Me and some guys I used to work with would set these J-bins up (the more the better!) and play bass-heavy music through them and stand back and grin wildly. It is the kind of bass that slams you in the solar plexus - quite fast and punchy. And loud. I think these cabinets are ideal for this application.

There are other designs out there that may be better, but check the price!

If you want higher SPLs or deeper bass - build more cabinets and put them side by side!

BTW, we used EV 15" drivers in them, rated at about 600 - 1000W, sorry forgot the model numbers. They sounded best with Crown Amcron Macrotech 2400 power amplifiers. about 1200W per channel I think.

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Old 8th October 2002, 02:35 PM   #17
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Unhappy ???

Well,
This is a little unnerving.
One person says the ďscoopsĒ would be perfect for my friendís application and every one else says they blow. I am not sure what to believe. I have no clue as to what makes a good horn and what doesnít but I am getting confliction feedback. At first I was sold on the scoop and then I was sold on not using the scoop and now I have no idea on what or who to believe. I am not saying that any of you guys are wrong I am just saying I donít have the slightest idea on what I need now. More feed back would be greatly appreciated. And to those who suggested to design one from the driver up could I get some help with that? As most of you know I know jack about any type of horn and what would be the best choice for a given situation.

Thanks,
Slice

PS. For those who suggested that I design a horn from the driver up, I got the idea that you were going to help me design a horn, but I have had no such help. Was I wrong in assuming that you guys were going to help me design a horn?
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Old 8th October 2002, 04:07 PM   #18
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Designing a horn is a time-consuming and difficult process. I could "design" you a horn, and it may even be better than the scoop you were going to construct, but it will be far, far sub-optimal.

There are very few people on this board who are qualified to really do a horn the justice it requires. I can count on one hand the number of people I'd deem able to do it well (and it wouldn't include myself), and none of those have enough free time to sit around here and play with us kiddies in our sandbox (so to speak.)

The proper resources have been pointed out to you already. Getting full custom designs handed to you on a platter is expensive, and will require large consulting costs.

Take the time to learn + absorb the material given. Play with some of the horn models + calculators and see how your favorite scoops, bass bins, or otherwise, will be have with different drivers.

Read up on the theory, and if you don't understand something, ask questions and we'll all do our best to help. This place isn't meant to be a free design service, however. You'll be a lot better served by learning what goes into making a good horn than just by getting one designed for you.

Seriously, designing a quality horn takes weeks of modeling, design, construction, measurement, deconstruction, epithets, and then more construction and measuring, until you have a good finished product. The urls given to you in this thread are already a good start, and if you can manage to digest them and spend a few hours playing around with the free tools provided, you'll be on your way.
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Old 8th October 2002, 11:12 PM   #19
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Slice,

So as not to confuse you, I should state that I have absolutely no experience designing or building horn loaded loudspeakers, apart from re-coning a few drivers and doing repairs, etc.
I have USED a wide range of horn loaded P.A. speakers, and IMHO I think this design would be good for the application you have suggested. My experience is as an end-user only.

-Sure, the frequency response may not be particularly flat.
-sure, there may be other, more complicated designs offering better specs/performance. For the job you have suggested however, I think this design is a good choice. They are a tried and tested design.

I believe that "Hi-Fi" horn loudspeakers and Professional sound reinforcement horn-loaded speakers are a world apart; it is important to remember this to find the right design for the job at hand.
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Old 9th October 2002, 12:33 PM   #20
bob4 is offline bob4  Germany
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Question another rookie seeking advice

Hi everybody!

I just came across this thread by accident, and as I intend to build a pair of scoops, I decided to register and post some questions on that topic.

Like slicemaster, I found the plans for a scoop bin on the dancetech page some time ago.

I also had previously found some general information and formulae on horn design on the net (http://melhuish.org/audio/horn.htm, just to mention one).

As I have already bought a pair of Eminence Kappa 15 (which by the way should be quite suitable for horn loading according to the Fs/Qts quotient), I started to calculate the modifications I would have to do on the design from the dancetech site to fit it to my woofers, using the formulae from above mentioned site.
But unfortunately something went wrong:

1. I got some nasty results like a throat area of 0.5 m≤
2. I'm not sure which formula to use e.g. for the compression chamber, since the formulae were intended to be used on a different design.

I would be glad if anybody could tell me, whether the formulae I'm counting with are crap, or if it's just that I'm too dumb to use my calculator ;-))))))

I hope I'm not annoying anybody
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