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Old 6th October 2005, 09:39 AM   #1
keyser is offline keyser  Netherlands
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Default bass unit to form a 3-way system with Scan-Speak Reference Monitor

Hi!
I am now building a pair of SS Ref. Mon's.

http://audiocomponents.nl/speakers/s...erence_eng.htm
>far left speaker<

Since i am used to listening to big 3-way speakers, i intend to build a set of stereo subs to form effectively form a 3-way system. The monitors will be placed on top of the subs. I already have an active 24 db crossover and a 140 watt @ 8 ohm amp.
I am not very sure yet, but I think the subs will have to take over from about 150 hz.

the speakers will be used for music only. I like very tight, an controlled bass. absolute sound volume and bass depth come second, because i will only use the system for music. I think i like a sound of a sub that has very low Qtc. I can accommodate pretty large boxes, but they shouldn't exceed about 120 liter inner volume. I like the sound of big units, 25cm (10") to 30 cm (12").

I've been looking at units from both peerless XXLS and Scan-speak, since they seem high qualtity and are easily available here in the Netherlands. I recently downloaded WinISD, but i'm not very experieced with it yet. I am not sure how to interprete all the info the program offers. Could anyone suggest a good woofer and box?

tnx
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Old 6th October 2005, 09:50 AM   #2
jomor is offline jomor  Greece
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Default Re: bass unit to form a 3-way system with Scan-Speak Reference Monitor

Quote:
Originally posted by keyser
[B]Hi!
I am now building a pair of SS Ref. Mon's.

http://audiocomponents.nl/speakers/s...erence_eng.htm
>far left speaker<

Since i am used to listening to big 3-way speakers, i intend to build a set of stereo subs to form effectively form a 3-way system. The monitors will be placed on top of the subs. I already have an active 24 db crossover and a 140 watt @ 8 ohm amp.
I am not very sure yet, but I think the subs will have to take over from about 150 hz.

the speakers will be used for music only. I like very tight, an controlled bass. absolute sound volume and bass depth come second, because i will only use the system for music.
I doubt if you will need a subwoofer with the 8546, unless your room is quite big. The 8546 has great performance, so if you decide to build it, leave the subwoofer construction after you listen to the 8546 kit.

Quote:
Originally posted by keyser
Could anyone suggest a good woofer and box?

tnx
The 8531 is also a great driver with great performance. Troels Gravesen has a design with 8531 and 9700 at his website if i remember well.
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Old 6th October 2005, 10:09 AM   #3
keyser is offline keyser  Netherlands
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ive had a pair of 2-way speakers before, and i think they are not capable of setting up a stage as realistic as a good 3-way speaker can. I will not start building the subs before i've first listened to the monitors alone, but i am quite confident i will decide to build them.
I have heard big high-end speakers, with big woofers, and i liked the sound of them. I have also heard a 3-way design incorporating the Scan Speak 21W/8555 (Qtc 0,6), and liked it a lot, but is still prefer the easier way bass comes from bigger units.
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Old 6th October 2005, 08:01 PM   #4
jamesj is offline jamesj  New Zealand
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There is no denying that bass from a larger drive unit sounds more effortless and real. I often use the analogy of stirring paint with a stick vs paddle. You need considerably more stirring with a stick to achieve the same effect. I've used a single 25W8565-01 (sealed) in a 70L box to good effect. Nice balance of sensitivity and extension, and probably the best compromise in terms of amp-friendliness and sonic effectiveness. However, a pair of 21W8555-01s (sealed) offers considerably more sensitivity and sacrifices only a little bass extension for the same box volume. Both 21W and 25W are exceptional woofers that sound very good between 40Hz and 400Hz.

HTH

James
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Old 6th October 2005, 11:15 PM   #5
keyser is offline keyser  Netherlands
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tnx for your reply. I have also considered using 2 sets of 8555's, but I don't think that would be the best for the money, considering they will be used only below about 150 hz!
I've still got to run the other drivers you mentioned in WinISD.
Have you also heard or maybe even used the W23 4557T? I wonder how such a woofer would compare to the much less expensive Peerless XXLS 12" (830845). The latter needs a bigger box, but I can get a Qtc of 0,685 in a 120 L box. The Scan speak would give a Qtc of ),57 in a box of the same size. It would also go deeper.
I've read very good things about the Peerless, for it having extremely low distortion. I don't know how it would compare to the more expensive Scan Speak. Would it justify the extra amount of money?
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Old 7th October 2005, 06:20 AM   #6
jamesj is offline jamesj  New Zealand
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I haven't heard the Peerless, but I believe they are considered sub-woofers rather than woofers. If you are operating them below 150Hz, then the Peerless might be quite effective. Otherwise, my money is on the Scan-speak.

The 23W is also a sub, and with that you get very low sensitivity, which must be factored into the overall equation if you are planning on a totally passive system.

James
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Old 7th October 2005, 12:33 PM   #7
keyser is offline keyser  Netherlands
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bass is going to be the actively drive part, with passive monitors, as mentioned in my first post. I guess the bass section will be crossed at around 150 hz. This means the bass section is not really a subwoofer, as the monitors will now only have to do some upper bass. I already have a 24 db/oct. crossover. Frequency, gain and phase are adjustable. I also have a powerful enough stereo amp (200 watt @ 8 ohm). The low sensitivity of the SS W23 won't be a problem, i think.
The driver i need should be a subwoofer driver, that also plays well up to some 400 hz or so, right?
I don't really know how to judge a woofer by their parameters alone. Does anyone know of a really good unit for this application? I just want to do this right at once, and not find out i should have bought another driver once i've bought and built the sub!
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Old 9th October 2005, 12:00 PM   #8
keyser is offline keyser  Netherlands
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Right now its probably between SS W 23, and Peerless XXLS 10" 8 ohm. Peerless is less expensive, would it be as good as the SS? On another forum someone said it might be even better. Anyone experience with either unit?
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Old 9th October 2005, 02:39 PM   #9
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I use 12 xls for car in my car and they are the fastest sub I heard but dont play them higher then 60 hz
I made a sub 12 xls for home for my DAD in his basement with 340watts amp and passive rad.Its impressive the only sub who could withstand the shaking in lord of the ring.and it to was cut at 55hz
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Old 10th October 2005, 09:18 PM   #10
keyser is offline keyser  Netherlands
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hmm... not easy
considering that its about a lot of money, i want to do it right at once. Is there anyone whos experienced enough to tell which unit will be best, looking at the T/S-parameters, and also able to explain why?
for now: XXLS needs a slightly bigger box, and goes a bit less low. Maybe it responds a bit slower to transients but i'm not sure (I read on the Adire site that a lower Le means quicker response to transients. The SS has Le of 0,45 mh, opposed to 2.8 mh for the XXLS). A pro for the XXLS is it's higher sensitivity, and its ability to play a bit louder than the ScanSpeak. Another major advantage is its lower price. I do really want a low Qtc, for very tight and quick bass for music-use only. The SS can be put in a smaller box. Smaller box means a sturdier and more dead box, which is a good thing.
Anyone something to add to the list?
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