Thorsten - I have seen some old posting around where you either considered using or used the Beyma 15" coax - You seem to be about the only person on the internet that has considered these for hifi - (they are quite costly and way too BEASTY for the mainstream cone/dome people)Curious to which 15" Beyma driver you may have used, how you loaded them, crossover and general thought on results -
Have a nice pair of 15DX's - contemplating back horn loading them or maybe a simple helper 15 (have many) to compliment the bass below baffle step - the baffle can be up to 36" wide - so far I just have them on an open board - biamped - very promising BUT I need to put these monsters in a box- 45-50 cycles on the bottom is fine because I have suitable subs for below that - Any ideas?????
Data Sheet
Have a nice pair of 15DX's - contemplating back horn loading them or maybe a simple helper 15 (have many) to compliment the bass below baffle step - the baffle can be up to 36" wide - so far I just have them on an open board - biamped - very promising BUT I need to put these monsters in a box- 45-50 cycles on the bottom is fine because I have suitable subs for below that - Any ideas?????
Data Sheet
Cool 
With a Qts of 0.43 maybe I can use it to build my dreamed Tannoy Autographs!?
http://www.users.bigpond.com/tunnelgap/Tannoy/autograph.html
See the diagrams there. Also see the LF extension
HF is 2''
I don't have enough money to buy original Tannoy DC and was considering Eminence Beta CX15 but they didn't convince me. These seem better from here.
Where do you buy them?
Regards
Mauricio
With a Qts of 0.43 maybe I can use it to build my dreamed Tannoy Autographs!?
http://www.users.bigpond.com/tunnelgap/Tannoy/autograph.html
See the diagrams there. Also see the LF extension
HF is 2''
I don't have enough money to buy original Tannoy DC and was considering Eminence Beta CX15 but they didn't convince me. These seem better from here.
Where do you buy them?
Regards
Mauricio
maxlorenz said:Cool
With a Qts of 0.43 maybe I can use it to build my dreamed Tannoy Autographs!?
http://www.users.bigpond.com/tunnelgap/Tannoy/autograph.html
See the diagrams there. Also see the LF extension
HF is 2''
I don't have enough money to buy original Tannoy DC and was considering Eminence Beta CX15 but they didn't convince me. These seem better from here.
Where do you buy them?
Regards
Mauricio
I found a NOS pair on ebay for around 400 US - They used to sell for around 1200 US a pair - The 2" driver is very good - very close to the 4001 TAD but a bit more relaxed in the treble- I think it's due to the lower compression ratio. The drivers I have are discontinued but Beyma has some new 15 coaxials they just introduced with neo magnets - They may be as good or better. They are so new they don't yet appear on the website. Probably around 800 a pair - The 15DX was the most robust/expensive model.
From the Beyna site:
"As we announced before, Beyma attended the Plasa Show last September 2005 along with his distributor in Great Britain, Miltec.
New models in his wave guide line and new coaxial products were successfully presented there, being a novelty in his catalogue. Low frequency models of the series PRO, 5G40/Nd and 6G40/Nd, were presented as well in the neodymium version. "
That Tannoy horn cabinet is cool! - I can do something like that but I can use a 26" diameter round wooden tractrix horn I already have to load the front and build something like the "Big Fun" horn for the back - That's what I keep coming back to! It should be awesome sounding
http://profesional.beyma.com/ENGLISH/producto.php
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hi Mag
Enjoy,
Deon
I would suggest trying both the standard conical and your tractrix horns on the front. The reason I say this is because I know someone who has a pair of these. He went from the original design to something like a tractrix for the front (to be honest, he used the shape of a toilet seat to get the curve for the horn). He regrets the change and wants to go back to the original two-step conical shape. The problem with the curved horn is that it throws to image up to the ceiling. With the original conical horn he had normal imaging.
Enjoy,
Deon
Magnetar:
At 800 they are not far from Tannoy's DC.
I found this one: 15XA38Nd, It looks interesting but I can't find any big Beyma to figure how much they cost.
Hi DeonC:
How is your horn sounding?
Sometimes I think I will never make my Autograph's (and I have cheap wood source and cheap artisans) , involved in so many projects, amps, DAC's. As we say around here: "braking things, one learns" or something like that (it looses humour in translation)
Good luck, you...lucky ones
M
At 800 they are not far from Tannoy's DC.
I found this one: 15XA38Nd, It looks interesting but I can't find any big Beyma to figure how much they cost.
Hi DeonC:
How is your horn sounding?
Sometimes I think I will never make my Autograph's (and I have cheap wood source and cheap artisans) , involved in so many projects, amps, DAC's. As we say around here: "braking things, one learns" or something like that (it looses humour in translation)
Good luck, you...lucky ones
M
Thanks to those that replied = I decided to soffit mount (Studio monitor style) these directly flush into two of my three (wall sized) sub bass horns. They should go down pretty low on their own and be plenty efficient (sealed back chamber) and I don't need to worry about baffle step one bit - they also will be closer to the subs (real close!) and take up ZERO floor space....... this has to be the easist project I have ever done -
PS- I highly recommend these drivers. Mine have around 300 hours on them now (in temporary reflex cabinets) and are truly first class. I am very happy with them in all respects. They sound good at all levels and have no problem reproducing a drum kit - I figure the gain of flush soffit mount will take them into the dynamic range and sCaLe of fully horn loaded territory without the SIZE and other horn related problems.
PS- I highly recommend these drivers. Mine have around 300 hours on them now (in temporary reflex cabinets) and are truly first class. I am very happy with them in all respects. They sound good at all levels and have no problem reproducing a drum kit - I figure the gain of flush soffit mount will take them into the dynamic range and sCaLe of fully horn loaded territory without the SIZE and other horn related problems.
Konnichiwa,
I used earlier versions in stage monitors, as well as smaller PA cabs, they sounded excellent and I thoght them better than the Altec & JBL coaxials found in Urei Monitors.
I'm no longer allowed any really big speakers (funny, she kind of liked the big tannoys BEFORE she moved in...) nothing even came of the Beyma's...
I would probably be tempted to place them soffit mounted into false walls (ideally brick build) if I had the chance, or stick them into autographs. In vented boxes they do not go that low.
Sayonara
Magnetar said:
I used earlier versions in stage monitors, as well as smaller PA cabs, they sounded excellent and I thoght them better than the Altec & JBL coaxials found in Urei Monitors.
I'm no longer allowed any really big speakers (funny, she kind of liked the big tannoys BEFORE she moved in...) nothing even came of the Beyma's...
I would probably be tempted to place them soffit mounted into false walls (ideally brick build) if I had the chance, or stick them into autographs. In vented boxes they do not go that low.
Sayonara
Re: Re: PING- Kuei Yang Wang
I have the luxury of having my own room - my wife likes me to stay down there lots- The soffit mount seems like a killer solution for these. In my reflex boxes they are good to around 65 cycles BUT have serious baffle step thinness in the low mids - Kinda sound like refined mini-monitors on steriods.
Peace,
Kuei Yang Wang said:
I have the luxury of having my own room - my wife likes me to stay down there lots-
The soffit mount seems like a killer solution for these. In my reflex boxes they are good to around 65 cycles BUT have serious baffle step thinness in the low mids - Kinda sound like refined mini-monitors on steriods. Peace,
Hi Max
Not mine. I wish!! They belong to a friend of mine (a guy called Chris Templar).
They are worth it from what I heard at Chris' place. Hard to make, but hard to find anything comparable (unless you have a rig like Magnetar's). Chris has another pair here in South-Africa that have been completed an just needs a buyer, but I don't have the space or the funds to accomodate them. Ah well, maybe some day. A man can dream.
Enjoy,
Deon
Not mine. I wish!! They belong to a friend of mine (a guy called Chris Templar).
They are worth it from what I heard at Chris' place. Hard to make, but hard to find anything comparable (unless you have a rig like Magnetar's). Chris has another pair here in South-Africa that have been completed an just needs a buyer, but I don't have the space or the funds to accomodate them.
Ah well, maybe some day. A man can dream. Enjoy,
Deon
Re: Re: PING- Kuei Yang Wang
I have them mounted in the 'soffit' bass horn wall where the back chamber is using part of the unused back chamber for the JBL 2242H subhorn drivers - It really worked out well, the 2242's required a smaller back chamber (original was 7.5 cu ft) so they have approx 3 cubic feet behind them. They ended up being centered at 38" off the ground. They are going down to 60 cycles now with excellent upper bass/low mid power and resolution. The 'wall' baffle also has excellent imaging - much better than using the little 22" BR boxes out in the room -never thought that would be much of a benefit. I'm still trying different crosovers - look like 850 cycles 4th order is pretty close to ideal. I'm thinking I'll high pass them at 100 cycles and use the two outside basshorns for stereo bass and the center will come in at 35 in mono. That should give a bit more PUNCH, headroom and power as well as lower the bass and midrange distortion. It will then be quad-amped. I like this setup.
Kuei Yang Wang said:
I have them mounted in the 'soffit' bass horn wall where the back chamber is using part of the unused back chamber for the JBL 2242H subhorn drivers - It really worked out well, the 2242's required a smaller back chamber (original was 7.5 cu ft) so they have approx 3 cubic feet behind them. They ended up being centered at 38" off the ground. They are going down to 60 cycles now with excellent upper bass/low mid power and resolution. The 'wall' baffle also has excellent imaging - much better than using the little 22" BR boxes out in the room -never thought that would be much of a benefit. I'm still trying different crosovers - look like 850 cycles 4th order is pretty close to ideal. I'm thinking I'll high pass them at 100 cycles and use the two outside basshorns for stereo bass and the center will come in at 35 in mono. That should give a bit more PUNCH, headroom and power as well as lower the bass and midrange distortion. It will then be quad-amped. I like this setup.
Musikverein System
Hello,
I already have the big tractrix mid horns -----
I decided these really don't require horn loading in the midrange. Once I got them mounted in the front walls (actually subhorns) in sealed enclosures near the room corners they are going down to 50-60 cycles and out to 800 (they rise a couple of db from there up to 1.2K but I crossover at 800 24/db/octabe) at around 102 db W/M ! These use an intergrated coaxial 2" exit compression driver that is 105 db/w/m - 90 degree round conical - I'm triamping now with three horn subs across the front wall (all subs in mono crossed at 50 cycles acoustically) where the coaxials are mounted and two additional subs (driven by more amps) in the back corners. The front walls ( l/r subs) are now diagonal in the corners and the coaxials are pointing just outside my shoulders. BIG, lush. powerful 3D sound here - I think I'll call this system "Musikverein" ------ like the concert hall - Warm, lush, and romantic.
The drivers have excellent linearity and lack compression when high passed at 60 cycles. This has to be the best sound I've had in my room for the least amount of work. I'm glad I used the soffit/wall mounting. I was afraid it would screw up the 'depth' of the soundstage - Quite the opposite - With the upper bass low mids/mid loaded in the wall there is no back wall reflexions and the tone is spot on with no baffle step problem - I placed two of my home brew 24" diameter tube traps at the intersections of the side wall and the 'coaxial' walls and the only dip I was getting in the response was eliminated.
DeonC said:
Hello,
I already have the big tractrix mid horns -----
I decided these really don't require horn loading in the midrange. Once I got them mounted in the front walls (actually subhorns) in sealed enclosures near the room corners they are going down to 50-60 cycles and out to 800 (they rise a couple of db from there up to 1.2K but I crossover at 800 24/db/octabe) at around 102 db W/M ! These use an intergrated coaxial 2" exit compression driver that is 105 db/w/m - 90 degree round conical - I'm triamping now with three horn subs across the front wall (all subs in mono crossed at 50 cycles acoustically) where the coaxials are mounted and two additional subs (driven by more amps) in the back corners. The front walls ( l/r subs) are now diagonal in the corners and the coaxials are pointing just outside my shoulders. BIG, lush. powerful 3D sound here - I think I'll call this system "Musikverein" ------ like the concert hall - Warm, lush, and romantic.
The drivers have excellent linearity and lack compression when high passed at 60 cycles. This has to be the best sound I've had in my room for the least amount of work. I'm glad I used the soffit/wall mounting. I was afraid it would screw up the 'depth' of the soundstage - Quite the opposite - With the upper bass low mids/mid loaded in the wall there is no back wall reflexions and the tone is spot on with no baffle step problem - I placed two of my home brew 24" diameter tube traps at the intersections of the side wall and the 'coaxial' walls and the only dip I was getting in the response was eliminated.
Front and Rear loaded 15" coax
Well here is something like the Autograph- one of the beyma coaxials is now front and rear loaded with a 40 Hz folded half space back horn and 180 Hz front round tractrix horn - I had to play with the throat a little but it was pretty close to match at the 200 Hz - it now sounds/measures seamless there and the front horn is going to 1K to mate wuth the compression driver- this speaker is quite large - 56" tall 34" wide and 30" deep - it's going down with excellent definition to the point where my subs aren't really needed -
I might get the other one working this weekend - These should really kick some butt with with 20-30 watts seeing they are around 104db/watt/meter at 45 cycles.... One is fun with a 45 mono amp
Kuei Yang Wang said:
Well here is something like the Autograph- one of the beyma coaxials is now front and rear loaded with a 40 Hz folded half space back horn and 180 Hz front round tractrix horn - I had to play with the throat a little but it was pretty close to match at the 200 Hz - it now sounds/measures seamless there and the front horn is going to 1K to mate wuth the compression driver- this speaker is quite large - 56" tall 34" wide and 30" deep - it's going down with excellent definition to the point where my subs aren't really needed -
I might get the other one working this weekend - These should really kick some butt with with 20-30 watts seeing they are around 104db/watt/meter at 45 cycles.... One is fun with a 45 mono amp
qi said:
Hello - the only time I remember arguing with Thorsten was over bass horns versus open baffle bass - I doubt either of us have changed our minds on that. Both can be considered as superior alternatives to typical vented or sealed loading schemes, Horns however, are purer, and use nature to perform rather than fight nature like open baffles. That's why I call open baffle bass 'backwards'
I'll post picture when I have these 'single driver' speakers finished.
They are some BMF'ers....
Konnichiwa,
Actually, if you remember, I agreed that all else being equal very large, non folded horns are ideal, such as below:
My contention was merely that if we start to compromise the horns, fold them up, foresorten them and so on to fit them into small spaces an open baffle tends to be the better choice.
I normally call open baffles "unassisted" LF radiator, while I call domestic Horns, TQWT, transmission lines, reflex enclosures and so on "resonance assisited" LF radiators.
Otherwise I call propper horns the same as you - BMF's...
Sayonara
Magnetar said:
Actually, if you remember, I agreed that all else being equal very large, non folded horns are ideal, such as below:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
My contention was merely that if we start to compromise the horns, fold them up, foresorten them and so on to fit them into small spaces an open baffle tends to be the better choice.
I normally call open baffles "unassisted" LF radiator, while I call domestic Horns, TQWT, transmission lines, reflex enclosures and so on "resonance assisited" LF radiators.
Otherwise I call propper horns the same as you - BMF's...
Sayonara
Konnichiwa,
Yup, sure right.
That is a pretty good summary, except OB's are subtractive only in SPL but non-additive in terms of resonances in various ways.
Optimised horns are additive in SPL and eaually non-additive in terms of resonace, but compromised ("domestic") LF horns are very additive in both senses....
Depends on the situation and application. I can imagine situations where a Karate Black Belt makes short work out of me and others where I make short work of the earlier (eg me 10m away and with a nice Luger), it is all a question of circumstance and conditions which one wins and which one looses.
Sayonara
Rudolf said:Ahh, you can´t fight nature, whatever you do.
Yup, sure right.
Rudolf said:
That is a pretty good summary, except OB's are subtractive only in SPL but non-additive in terms of resonances in various ways.
Optimised horns are additive in SPL and eaually non-additive in terms of resonace, but compromised ("domestic") LF horns are very additive in both senses....
Rudolf said:Or (taking the argument even further):
Horns are winners, OBs are loosers.
Depends on the situation and application. I can imagine situations where a Karate Black Belt makes short work out of me and others where I make short work of the earlier (eg me 10m away and with a nice Luger), it is all a question of circumstance and conditions which one wins and which one looses.
Sayonara
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