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Old 30th September 2005, 02:39 AM   #61
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Quote:
I wouldn't say "Joe" is doing alot of mathematical tricks, but rather the CLIO system he uses.
Nonsense. Clio only does what you tell it to do and it does it quite well. It's just a dumb calculator. If you tell it to "lie" (by accident of course ) it will be quite happy to oblige you.
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Old 30th September 2005, 02:48 AM   #62
Byrd is offline Byrd  South Africa
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Quote:
Originally posted by catapult


Nonsense. Clio only does what you tell it to do and it does it quite well. It's just a dumb calculator. If you tell it to "lie" (by accident of course ) it will be quite happy to oblige you.
And you have proof that this "great designer" did this of course and are not simply making statements based on fiction. Preahaps you could share this evidence with us.

You also see no value in adding port output to the response?
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Old 30th September 2005, 03:07 AM   #63
MJK is offline MJK  United States
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Ross,

I don't understand your response. Earlier you seemed to be questioning the accuracy and capability of CLIO. I though the response provided was appropriate, CLIO is a great tool but is only as accurate as the user is knowledgable. Garbage in, garbage out. If the user is skilled and understands test methods and measurement systems (about which Joe D has written an excellent book) and operates the software correctly the results produced will be very accurate. A skilled user can also manipulate the methods and the results to hide certain undesirable characteristics, happens all the time in industry with all kinds of measurement and analysis software packages. A unskilled user will most likely produce nonsense, CLIO cannot think for somebody who does not understand testing and measurement software. I did not see any accusations made in the response to your post, only a statement describing the accuracy of the CLIO system.
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Old 30th September 2005, 03:14 AM   #64
Byrd is offline Byrd  South Africa
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My Response was in relation to this "No MLS or quasi-anechoic windowing tricks are needed" which is what CLIO uses

Lets get this absolutely clear and not be vague about it. Are you saying that in your opinion Joe d'Appolito manipulated the results?
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Old 30th September 2005, 03:20 AM   #65
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Preahaps you could share this evidence with us.
The evidence is that the "real" anechoic measurements in the Seas chamber don't agree with Joe D's simulated "quasi-anechoic" measurements.

Quote:
You also see no value in adding port output to the response?
That's only necessary when you are simulating anechoic response in a room, trying to remove the room's contribution. You gate the high frequencies to remove the room response and close-mic the woofers and the port with no gating. Then you add all the responses together, adjusting for the area and measuring distance of the drivers and the port. None of that is necessary in an anechoic chamber. The room contribution is nil so you just measure the speaker and what you see is what you get.
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Old 30th September 2005, 03:27 AM   #66
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Lets get this absolutely clear and not be vague about it. Are you saying that in your opinion Joe d'Appolito manipulated the results?
His results are incorrect. I prefer to think he made a mistake.
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Old 30th September 2005, 03:27 AM   #67
Byrd is offline Byrd  South Africa
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Would a dipole speaker measure accuratly in an anechoic chamber?
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Old 30th September 2005, 03:38 AM   #68
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Originally posted by Byrd
Would a dipole speaker measure accuratly in an anechoic chamber?
Short answer, yes. Longer answer, measuring any speaker, in a room or in a chamber, presents unique challenges and the person measuring needs to know what he's doing and not make any mistakes or false assumptions. Measuring speakers is not a trivial exercise if you want meaningful results.
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Old 30th September 2005, 03:55 AM   #69
Byrd is offline Byrd  South Africa
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Quote:
Originally posted by catapult


His results are incorrect. I prefer to think he made a mistake.
Again I ask you for proof that you know for a fact that the measurements provided by Joe d'Appolito are incorrect. Simply because Seas measured one speaker correctly does not mean that they did so with the Thor.
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Old 30th September 2005, 04:04 AM   #70
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Excuse me, I'm under no obligation to "prove" anything. My belief is that the Seas measurements are more accurate, backed up by theory as shown in Martins worksheets and all the listener reports of the Thor sounding thin in the bass. You are free to believe whatever you want. Enjoy your speakers, you've been warned.....
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