Hindsight is 20/20 ....

Madmike2 · 11th September 2005, 04:21 PM

I am presently enjoying my 3 way active crossover 2 channel stereo system immensly right now. It wasnt what i had planned on building when i first came to this forum in the early spring but it was i ended up with. Stereo Bass 2 x Hi-Vi D10.8 Morel MW166 for the mid-bass mid-range and the Hi-Vi RT811 Pro ribbon tweeter. My Mids are a little thin and weak from the Morel being only about 84 DB efficient and trying to keep up with a 94 DB ribbon and 91 DB bass cabinets. And it shows with the position i have to keep the gain Pots on the Rane SAC-23 crossover. Bass at 6 the mid at 9 and the tweeter at 6 for close to balanced sound. I am going to rebuild the top end and add another Morel MW166 per side to bring up the efficiency so my set will look like this going from the bottom up -WWMMT- .

So all this thought on how to fix it got me thinking. Mostly because my initial thoughts were to scrap it all and start again, but when i think about it the bass is mint and effortless in those nice solid sealed cabinets. And sure the high end falls off sharply at 16k but guitars and strings sound amazing compared to what i am used to , at the outside i could always add a super tweeter later. It would not be really smart to scrap it all and start again when the fix is pretty straight forward.

BUT.

Being what we are, human, and always looking for improved ways of doing things and hindsight being 20/20 as they say. If you were to do it all again, WHAT would you build this time?

Michael

Madmike2 · 11th September 2005, 05:56 PM

I just re-read my post and realized that it sounds like i am asking what you would build if you were me or had the gear i have. Thats not my intention. I want to know what 'you' with 'your' stuff or gear that you have accumulated would build differently from what you have built now. I hope that makes more sense.

Madmike2 · 13th September 2005, 12:13 AM

LOL y'all cannot mean to imply that all of you have perfect speakers? Everyone built perfect speakers and no one has any desire to improve upon them at all?

WOW this forum is incredible. I want all of you now to turn your attention to getting man into space permanently

We could be good to go in 2 years with all the geniuses here besides me.

i get to deal with weightless cookie dough. And the tough engineering puzzle of how to flip pancakes in zero g.

Audiophilenoob · 13th September 2005, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Madmike2
LOL y'all cannot mean to imply that all of you have perfect speakers? Everyone built perfect speakers and no one has any desire to improve upon them at all?

WOW this forum is incredible. I want all of you now to turn your attention to getting man into space permanently

We could be good to go in 2 years with all the geniuses here besides me. i get to deal with weightless cookie dough. And the tough engineering puzzle of how to flip pancakes in zero g.

I really think you should find a better midbass.... and midrange...

preferably things not so inefficent

some damn good sounding low distortion high efficency drivers out there

DIY_newbie · 13th September 2005, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Madmike2
LOL And the tough engineering puzzle of how to flip pancakes in zero g.

Can't help you with the speakers since my project is still on going..

I am howver a master pancake chef and I propose a simple device composed of two oposed, hinged frying pans to solve solve the problem. Fill with batter, close, heat on one side, flip over heat the other side, open and enjoy...

Ok guys now that I've solved he pancake problem lets work on the man permanently in space

--Chris

Stocker · 13th September 2005, 02:54 AM

Well, to answer the question it souned like you were asking in the first place, I would at least experiment with different types of high-power, low-value resistors in series with the more efficient drivers to bring them down to the same output levels as the bass driver... Possibly that would be cheaper than doubling up on the drivers you want to make louder, and would also have the effect of not creating dispersion problems worse than any 3-way already will have.

wintermute · 13th September 2005, 03:33 AM

some things that I have just learnt from the cabinets I just made

1. Measure the thickness of the MDF (I used 25mm and it was actually 25.5mm).

2. Buy proper T-Nuts (I used normal nuts squashed into the hole.

3. drill the bigger inside holes (for T-Nuts) before flaring the driver cutout!!!! will require some sort of depth guage.

4. I should have used quarter round with 45 deg cuts on the ends for my internal corner bracing, istead of one piece of 25mm square MDF and two bits of quarter round.

5. Do testing in a methodical manner and document absolutely everything!!!! I'm still not able to trust my acuoustic measurements.... I think I need to buy Joe D'appolito's testing Loudspeakers book.

6. Buy the veneer before starting construction. I now have cabinets with no veneer, and a 7 hour drive to where I have facilities to finish them

I also can't put my chamfer on the baffle till I do the veneering......

7. maybe choose drivers that a lot of others have had experience with when it is your first attempt at a crossover.... Don't necessarily believe the freq response graphs on manufacturers or vendors sites, you may get a surprise!!

Tony.

Madmike2 · 13th September 2005, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by wintermute

7. maybe choose drivers that a lot of others have had experience with when it is your first attempt at a crossover.... Don't necessarily believe the freq response graphs on manufacturers or vendors sites, you may get a surprise!!

Tony.

*sigh*

ain't that the truth

Madmike2 · 13th September 2005, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Audiophilenoob

I really think you should find a better midbass.... and midrange...

preferably things not so inefficent

some damn good sounding low distortion high efficency drivers out there

Better ? Or more efficient ? Because the Morel is just fine sound wise and plays really low for a sealed box smallish driver. Which is where i am staying. I hate hate hate ported cabinets. IMO sealed sounds better although i have yet to hear Dipole boxless speakers. Doubling up the drivers should solve my problem UNLESS you know a speaker thats better/ > efficient that will run sealed happily ?

Madmike2 · 14th September 2005, 03:28 AM

So does anyone have a suggestion for a mid-bass mid-range that likes to be in a sealed enclosure and has an efficiency rating in excess of 89 db ??

11th September 2005, 04:21 PM	#1
Madmike2 diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Toronto	Hindsight is 20/20 .... I am presently enjoying my 3 way active crossover 2 channel stereo system immensly right now. It wasnt what i had planned on building when i first came to this forum in the early spring but it was i ended up with. Stereo Bass 2 x Hi-Vi D10.8 Morel MW166 for the mid-bass mid-range and the Hi-Vi RT811 Pro ribbon tweeter. My Mids are a little thin and weak from the Morel being only about 84 DB efficient and trying to keep up with a 94 DB ribbon and 91 DB bass cabinets. And it shows with the position i have to keep the gain Pots on the Rane SAC-23 crossover. Bass at 6 the mid at 9 and the tweeter at 6 for close to balanced sound. I am going to rebuild the top end and add another Morel MW166 per side to bring up the efficiency so my set will look like this going from the bottom up -WWMMT- . So all this thought on how to fix it got me thinking. Mostly because my initial thoughts were to scrap it all and start again, but when i think about it the bass is mint and effortless in those nice solid sealed cabinets. And sure the high end falls off sharply at 16k but guitars and strings sound amazing compared to what i am used to , at the outside i could always add a super tweeter later. It would not be really smart to scrap it all and start again when the fix is pretty straight forward. BUT. Being what we are, human, and always looking for improved ways of doing things and hindsight being 20/20 as they say. If you were to do it all again, WHAT would you build this time? Michael __________________ Persistence is better then intelligence. Unless persistence kills you.

11th September 2005, 05:56 PM	#2
Madmike2 diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Toronto	I just re-read my post and realized that it sounds like i am asking what you would build if you were me or had the gear i have. Thats not my intention. I want to know what 'you' with 'your' stuff or gear that you have accumulated would build differently from what you have built now. I hope that makes more sense. __________________ Persistence is better then intelligence. Unless persistence kills you.

13th September 2005, 12:13 AM	#3
Madmike2 diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Toronto	LOL y'all cannot mean to imply that all of you have perfect speakers? Everyone built perfect speakers and no one has any desire to improve upon them at all? WOW this forum is incredible. I want all of you now to turn your attention to getting man into space permanently We could be good to go in 2 years with all the geniuses here besides me. i get to deal with weightless cookie dough. And the tough engineering puzzle of how to flip pancakes in zero g. __________________ Persistence is better then intelligence. Unless persistence kills you.

13th September 2005, 02:54 AM	#6
Stocker diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Austin	Well, to answer the question it souned like you were asking in the first place, I would at least experiment with different types of high-power, low-value resistors in series with the more efficient drivers to bring them down to the same output levels as the bass driver... Possibly that would be cheaper than doubling up on the drivers you want to make louder, and would also have the effect of not creating dispersion problems worse than any 3-way already will have. __________________ Jesus loves you.

13th September 2005, 03:33 AM	#7
wintermute just another diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Sydney Blog Entries: 22	some things that I have just learnt from the cabinets I just made 1. Measure the thickness of the MDF (I used 25mm and it was actually 25.5mm). 2. Buy proper T-Nuts (I used normal nuts squashed into the hole. 3. drill the bigger inside holes (for T-Nuts) before flaring the driver cutout!!!! will require some sort of depth guage. 4. I should have used quarter round with 45 deg cuts on the ends for my internal corner bracing, istead of one piece of 25mm square MDF and two bits of quarter round. 5. Do testing in a methodical manner and document absolutely everything!!!! I'm still not able to trust my acuoustic measurements.... I think I need to buy Joe D'appolito's testing Loudspeakers book. 6. Buy the veneer before starting construction. I now have cabinets with no veneer, and a 7 hour drive to where I have facilities to finish them I also can't put my chamfer on the baffle till I do the veneering...... 7. maybe choose drivers that a lot of others have had experience with when it is your first attempt at a crossover.... Don't necessarily believe the freq response graphs on manufacturers or vendors sites, you may get a surprise!! Tony. __________________ Any intelligence I may appear to have is purely artificial! Some of my photos


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14th September 2005, 03:28 AM	#10
Madmike2 diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Toronto	So does anyone have a suggestion for a mid-bass mid-range that likes to be in a sealed enclosure and has an efficiency rating in excess of 89 db ?? __________________ Persistence is better then intelligence. Unless persistence kills you.

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