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Old 9th September 2005, 04:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by tktran


Heresay. Brave enough to send em to Mark K for testing?

A large frame, limited bandwidth and high cost.

it's not heresay actually /heheheeh

either way... mark K tested a speaker that ate the Seas for pure midrange.... and it's nearly identical in SQ to the ATC... might be slightly better than the ATC would measure... but has less dispersion than the ATC at high frequencies
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Old 9th September 2005, 05:11 AM   #12
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Noob,

What's SQ and SQL? I feel like I must have missed something (or maybe I'm old and have forgotten
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Old 9th September 2005, 05:19 AM   #13
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Originally posted by Cloth Ears
Noob,

What's SQ and SQL? I feel like I must have missed something (or maybe I'm old and have forgotten

SQ doesn't necessarily mean no SPL potential

I feel from my experiences that the closest true to life playback requires very dynamic speakers... but that's not to say they're bad sounding

as far as Mark K's test the Seas performed overall "best" from 150hz on... lowest OVERALL distortion

however others beat it in distortion where they were meant to shine and the range most important 600-2khz (who's midrange really plays 150hz to begin with?)... in fact the ATC is quite similar to this magnificent driver
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Old 9th September 2005, 05:26 AM   #14
tktran is offline tktran  Australia
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Of course, every driver has a limited bandwidth. But saying the ATC eats the SEAS Excel for breakfast is silly. And which driver are you referringn to Which one are you referring too?

Quote:
either way... mark K tested a speaker that ate the Seas for pure midrange.... and it's nearly identical in SQ to the ATC
But not every driver costs the earth.

I refer to the ATC, Its a "mid-dome", but I'm not sure I'd want to use it much below 2Khz, as shown by the rising distortion...

Also, I think we need to be clear about what range we're talking about.

Middle C on the piano is 261Hz. 150 is lower mids, but still mids.

600Hz is 1 octave about Middle C. I wouldn't consider this the start of the midrange...
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Old 9th September 2005, 05:45 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by tktran
Of course, every driver has a limited bandwidth. But saying the ATC eats the SEAS Excel for breakfast is silly. And which driver are you referringn to Which one are you referring too?



But not every driver costs the earth.

I refer to the ATC, Its a "mid-dome", but I'm not sure I'd want to use it much below 2Khz, as shown by the rising distortion...

Also, I think we need to be clear about what range we're talking about.

Middle C on the piano is 261Hz. 150 is lower mids, but still mids.

600Hz is 1 octave about Middle C. I wouldn't consider this the start of the midrange...
my midbasses are completely great sounding to 7khz!

sry had to throw that in

the PHL 1120 of course!!... non-linear distortion at 850 hz is to DIE for... 1.6khz is right at where the Seas is...

my midranges are from 500-2.5khz now... might change later.... sound just fantastic.... simply due to some simple facts about well designed high efficency midranges

the atc can't be crossed to 400 hz like the PHL can...

The PHL is easily the best sounding speaker I've heard.... and I've heard my fair share of seas and SS's

technically for a pure midrange 500-2khz... the PHL can't be beat

and if you want HIGHER than 2khz... well the PHL is probably the best you'll find till about 5khz... try doing that with your Seas

too bad the US is completely sold out of them

the ATC is quite similar to the PHL ... just can't be crossed lower than 600hz

the PHL in a dual setup can be crossed to 300 if you so desire

with midbasses like the ones I have you'll realize that xover points aren't that important because they match so well and the midbasses are simply fantastic sounding full range (15's BTW)...
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Old 9th September 2005, 06:01 AM   #16
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I've got some old ITT (Germany) 2" mid-domes, much like the ATCs (dual spider, etc.), but I wouldn't want to use them much below 1kHz. But in the high mids they are a gem (they'll cover 3 octaves on-axis easily). Saves having to cross the ribbons too low

I'm using 3451 PHLs for my lower mids tho'
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Old 9th September 2005, 02:21 PM   #17
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noob do you have a FR plot for that and a price? surely someone will be able to get those instock by the time i get around to building my system.
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Old 9th September 2005, 05:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gavin_mi
noob do you have a FR plot for that and a price? surely someone will be able to get those instock by the time i get around to building my system.
e-speakers is the only dealer in the USA and andre doesn't plan on buying any before the end of the year... or that's what he implied...

needs a 24 part order to do it he said


the fr plot is misleading.... there are "prettier" ones... but the midrange area is REALLY nice...

ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING OUTPUT LEVELS (116db anyone?)

http://206.13.113.199/ncdiyaudio/mar...20/PHL1120.htm

IMO the speaker is sooo close to the Seas (seas obviously optimized for only play to 2khz) I wouldn't even consider one audibly better sounding than the other

give that though... the efficency of the PHL SHOULD drive you towards using it if you need a pure midrange, not a midwoofer/midrange combo, especially if you like ribbons (how could someone NOT like the sound of an LCY 130)

anybody who's heard a high senstivity speaker of this caliber nearly always perfers it over lower sensitivity (read about 7db lower in fact) solutions
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Old 9th September 2005, 05:55 PM   #19
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though the W15 produces the lowest overall distortion of any driver tested

it's certianly not 100% accurate.... the PHL was built to sound fantastic as a pure midrange, even paired with a very high LPF at like 5khz. The W15 couldn't make it past 1.5khz without big problems

basically it depends on needs.... want a very low distortion midbass/midrange in a 2-way... look to Seas or the non-midrange PHL's like the 1200 series. but this really isn't a battle of 150hz playback unless your midbasses can't do that (which would be rather sad). this is a battle of a pure midrange and what gives you the most crossing properties... take any seas past 2khz on the LPF .... heck even 1.5khz and you may have some major issues. the PHL... well do w/e you want because it will sound fantastic till about 5khz

if you have a simply marvelous midbass as I do, the PHL is the only option especially for high sounding quality with efficency (read as dynamics). low sentivity's all seem the same to me.... nothing special.... buy a M15 or SS driver and they test nearly identical.... the difference is... if you PUSH it, you won't LIKE IT.... no high xover points, no high SPL capabilities either. they're just not meant for pure midrange duties, or IMO very dynamic playback

if you like ribbons... there isn't another option besides the ATC, audax PR17, etc.... because if you do low xover points... you lose SQ in the ribbons.... so you lose SQ either way. You lose output also... quite significantly actually.... wider ribbons do well... but then you have dispersion problems..

I personally like a nice xover point of 2.5-2.8khz.... ribbons can reach 114+ db above this.... PHL's do just swimmingly here, and the LCY ribbon has uniform x and y plane dispersion... dome like if you will, but without the inefficency and nastiness

my midbasses are level as a board till 4-5khz so I can't do w/e I feel like doing as far as this is concerned... inductane and impedence, and phase aren't issues either using them from 300hz LP to 1khz LP if I for some reason liked the sound.

and the overall system senstivity is over 96-97db/w.... mmm mmm dynamics and SQ out the wazoo.....
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Old 9th September 2005, 06:57 PM   #20
Paco is offline Paco  Spain
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Default Harsh sound

Hi Vil,
It very strange that the OWII sound harsh, I know this tweeter and I wouldnít say itís harsh at all. Itís hyper-analytic but not harsh. The problem with this hyper-analysis is that any harsh coming from the electronics will be shown with extreme clarity and the sound will be unpleasing. I think that using a ribbon could make things even worse. I would recommend to use a Seas Millenium, Morel MDT30 or MDT33. Those tweeters sounds more sweet and are less detailed that the OWII.

Regards,
Paco
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