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Old 2nd September 2005, 06:21 AM   #1
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Default teflon vs. PVC

Hi fellas,
I'm deciding to build speaker wire with CAT5e cable. Now the choice is between Belden 1585 and 1583. 1585 has a teflon jacket but cost more than twice as much as 1583 with PVC jacket. The 1585 is about US$128 for 1000ft here. There has been so many claims about the sonic difference between teflon and PVC. Has anyone here actually done a listening test on teflon vs. PVC jacket cable used for speaker? Glad to know the findings.

Cheers,

K K
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Old 2nd September 2005, 06:32 AM   #2
Coolin is offline Coolin  Netherlands
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If you choose for quality you choose the Teflon.....

Just sell what you dont need to make up the differance.

But the outermost jacket isnt Teflon is it. You will want to take that off.

Coolin
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Old 2nd September 2005, 09:55 AM   #3
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Thumbs up Outer jacket

Hi,
Coolin, I check the spec of 1585 again and you are right. The outer jacket is LSPVC. Also, you bring up an interesting point. I'm going to have 4 cables (32 strands) for each speaker. I have no idea to strip the outer jacket. I thought I might just twine the 4 cables along the run. If I strip them, I would have not 4, but 32 wires in the bundle to take care of. Messy. What is the drawback of leaving the outer jacket on? Is it sonicly bad?

Cheers,

K K
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Old 2nd September 2005, 02:54 PM   #4
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Save yourself some money and go for the cheaper one. Dilectric loss is in effect non-existent at audio frequencies, despite what Audioquest and inumerable others would have you believe (without offering any evidence that this is the case I might add). It's just not an issue. There is not the slightest scrap of proof that teflon, though it might be lovely stuff in itself (though avoid combining it with silver like the plague) is audably superior to PVC. In fact, there's a vast wealth of scientific evidence that shows there is no difference whatsoever in audio applictions. Have a look at the various articles on these two sites for more:
http://sound.westhost.com/cables.htm
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/
They make enlightening, and frequently entertaining reading. The latter also has an article on numerous DIY designs, including a number of ones using cat5 that you might find useful. I've built most of these at different points, and they're all good.
Best
Scott
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Old 2nd September 2005, 04:08 PM   #5
Coolin is offline Coolin  Netherlands
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Lots of duscussion on cables alright...

If your system ir revealing enough it maters.

There are othet things that are alot more important but each part of chain plays it own role and all these distortions let themselves be heard in different ways.

The more you can minimise each one the better you can hear the others. So this is also something to be very aware of.

But i know for a fact it has influences the sound. More so the more sentitive your speakers because the currents are smaller.

Later,
Collin
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Old 2nd September 2005, 04:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scottmoose
Save yourself some money and go for the cheaper one. Dilectric loss is in effect non-existent at audio frequencies, despite what Audioquest and inumerable others would have you believe (without offering any evidence that this is the case I might add). It's just not an issue. There is not the slightest scrap of proof that teflon, though it might be lovely stuff in itself (though avoid combining it with silver like the plague) is audably superior to PVC. In fact, there's a vast wealth of scientific evidence that shows there is no difference whatsoever in audio applictions. Have a look at the various articles on these two sites for more:
http://sound.westhost.com/cables.htm
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/
They make enlightening, and frequently entertaining reading. The latter also has an article on numerous DIY designs, including a number of ones using cat5 that you might find useful. I've built most of these at different points, and they're all good.
Best
Scott
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Old 2nd September 2005, 09:01 PM   #7
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Default !

Quote:
Originally posted by Coolin
Lots of duscussion on cables alright...

If your system ir revealing enough it maters.

There are othet things that are alot more important but each part of chain plays it own role and all these distortions let themselves be heard in different ways.

The more you can minimise each one the better you can hear the others. So this is also something to be very aware of.

But i know for a fact it has influences the sound. More so the more sentitive your speakers because the currents are smaller.

Later,
Collin
What facts? No cable introduces non-linear distortion, still less whatever it happens to be wrapped in. That's an electrical fact. Fair point though that minimising potential problems is the way forward, but wrapping an otherwise identical piece of wire in teflon rather than PVC won't help to improve sonic performance. Still, let's not get too far into another of those cable debates! (I'm feeling weak today!)
All the best
Scott
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Old 2nd September 2005, 09:15 PM   #8
Bose(o) is offline Bose(o)  Canada
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It's true. I actually just came back from a couple of hours in my communications lab at school.

CAT5's design was intended for use with extremely high frequencies. (MHz. and now GHz.). Any of the EMF, RF protection will not work for audio applications.
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Old 3rd September 2005, 12:41 AM   #9
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Default Teflon and Silver - Bad Mix??

"Teflon . . . (though avoid combining it with silver like the plague)"

I hadn't ever heard of this. What are the drawbacks? . . . Charlie
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Old 3rd September 2005, 12:49 AM   #10
Magura is offline Magura  Denmark
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Default Re: Teflon and Silver - Bad Mix??

Quote:
Originally posted by FlaCharlie
"Teflon . . . (though avoid combining it with silver like the plague)"

I hadn't ever heard of this. What are the drawbacks? . . . Charlie

In real life audio applications.....none. The benefits are though obvious, as silver solders easier than copper, so less bad joints. I have been using silver plated copper for ages, never had anything that remotely resembles a problem.

As for the teflon part, sonically I am fairly sure there is no benefit, I use it purely for mechanical strength and the fact that you have to be $hit out of luck to get a short due to molten isolation.

Magura
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