fb said:
Plugins withstanding. Its not the programs that resample but the WDM sound layer within windows. All output is still mixed on the waveout and therefore individual players cannot be assigned their own channels to create separate processing chains. ASIO can do this no problem but has other limitations since its far more rigid and intended for studio work.
Lots of good tips and challenges here. Thanks!
I like to keep all things ASIO, or equally good. Going through WDM is not something I'd like to do, considering all the time and money that's going into the sound quality of this setup.
My original thought was routing it through Console, something like this:
There will be latencies and possibly other filters here, but they're omitted for now.
I'm not sure if it's possible to have two filters connected to one output, but considering only one of them will be active at any given time (WinAmp and ZoomPlayer won't be running simultaneously), I have high hopes.
I'd also like to process everything at 96 kHz, and I'm not sure if that requires an upsampler at each input. If so, will that take care of the ASIO sample rate issue? WinAmp will only do 44.1 kHz, but ZoomPlayer will do both DVD and HD media, so that might post a challenge. However, AC3filter is capable of outputting at 96 kHz, so I might have a lucky break yet ;-) MP3 soundtracks would still be a problem though, as they don't go through AC3filter.
If I go this route, will Audiolense (or Acourate) only do filter generation? Not that that's not enough, though...
Too bad I can't do much experimenting with this, as I don't have any amps or proper speakers yet.
Edit (after reading the last comments): If there's an upsampling filter for WinAmp (or foobar), and I can find an upsampling mp3 filter for ZoomPlayer, are we ok with ASIO?
I like to keep all things ASIO, or equally good. Going through WDM is not something I'd like to do, considering all the time and money that's going into the sound quality of this setup.
My original thought was routing it through Console, something like this:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
There will be latencies and possibly other filters here, but they're omitted for now.
I'm not sure if it's possible to have two filters connected to one output, but considering only one of them will be active at any given time (WinAmp and ZoomPlayer won't be running simultaneously), I have high hopes.
I'd also like to process everything at 96 kHz, and I'm not sure if that requires an upsampler at each input. If so, will that take care of the ASIO sample rate issue? WinAmp will only do 44.1 kHz, but ZoomPlayer will do both DVD and HD media, so that might post a challenge. However, AC3filter is capable of outputting at 96 kHz, so I might have a lucky break yet ;-) MP3 soundtracks would still be a problem though, as they don't go through AC3filter.
If I go this route, will Audiolense (or Acourate) only do filter generation? Not that that's not enough, though...
Too bad I can't do much experimenting with this, as I don't have any amps or proper speakers yet.
Edit (after reading the last comments): If there's an upsampling filter for WinAmp (or foobar), and I can find an upsampling mp3 filter for ZoomPlayer, are we ok with ASIO?
Lars,
Not sure if I understand all the details here.
But Console can only handle 16 bit stereo in any other form than Asio, and Asio certainly will not accept mixing at any point.
And besides, you will have
Daveis,
If you use Convolver, it will output 24 bits to your sound card. If you don't need Convolver, you can simply run very short filters that starts with a 1 and then ... well - perhaps a few zeroes are required. I don't know.
Not sure if I understand all the details here.
But Console can only handle 16 bit stereo in any other form than Asio, and Asio certainly will not accept mixing at any point.
And besides, you will have
Daveis,
If you use Convolver, it will output 24 bits to your sound card. If you don't need Convolver, you can simply run very short filters that starts with a 1 and then ... well - perhaps a few zeroes are required. I don't know.
novec said:
Forget it if you want pure ASIO throughout all. ASIO is fine for music OR AV not both without complicating things. Here's why:
Number 1 - Zoomplayer doesn't output to ASIO, only Theatertek will do this that I know of.
Number 2 - AC3filter isn't an ASIO but a directsound(WDM) filter.
Number 3 - DVD's are 48Khz and CD/mp3 is 44Khz. ASIO is sample rate locked per session and you will need either a SRC in the chain or manually switch sample rates and reboot Console and your player. A PITA which you will tire of very quickly. If you do use a SRC then it doesn't fit in with your qualitative ideals. If your willing to accept this then forget full ASIO and just use it with the audio only side where its more critical and then WDM with movies to get automatic SRC.
Number 4 - your wanting to run your processing at 96Khz within Console and since Console is ASIO then that's yet another sample rate to consider. Nothing using ASIO, not winamp, not theatertek will work unless they dealing with 96Khz audio. WDM will work fine of course because of the SRC.
If your confused at this point its because your asking a huge amount and without sacrifices it'll never happen in satisfactory fashion. Those sacrifices will either be quality and/or ease of use and plug/play functionality.
Here's what I do:
Casual hassle free and most used setup:
Run soundcard session, console at 96KHz with 96Khz filters. Winamp uses directsound(WDM) and the same goes for zoomplayer. All SRC is automatic and transparent. I can play anything and everything with this setup and never touch a thing.
Hardcore quality setup for audio playback only:
Run soundcard session, console and filters at 44.1Khz. Winamp switched to ASIO output plugin. This setup is complete ASIO from player to output with no manipulation other than processing.
Do you know what? I notice zero difference between the two. Its impossible to AB them back to back because it takes a couple of minutes to switch between them but considering that your processing the whole audio chain using convolution then I don't think you have to worry about an SRC in there too since you already heavily manipulated the original signal.
All audiolense and acourate do is create filters. You need external software to use them.
Yes but only if you set the SRC to the ASIO rate.
Shinobiwan and other super hifi pc users,
I can still do a few things to provide improved sound quality to PC-audio enthusiasts. But finding the optimum solution for the rendering path is not among my areas of expertice.
There is a huge demand for playback solutions that includes multichannel convolution that actually works. I think everyone is better off if guys like Uli and myself spend the better part of our time improving our contributions. We will never be able to be as much on top of the rendering options as some of you super users are anyway
I would be very greatful if Shin could start a thread that simply addresses audio rendering with fir filtering and the rest of you could follow opp with the various solutions that has proven to work.
I can still do a few things to provide improved sound quality to PC-audio enthusiasts. But finding the optimum solution for the rendering path is not among my areas of expertice.
There is a huge demand for playback solutions that includes multichannel convolution that actually works. I think everyone is better off if guys like Uli and myself spend the better part of our time improving our contributions. We will never be able to be as much on top of the rendering options as some of you super users are anyway
I would be very greatful if Shin could start a thread that simply addresses audio rendering with fir filtering and the rest of you could follow opp with the various solutions that has proven to work.
BerntR said:
My experience is limited to PC but I can provide details on how to setup a configuration within Console including a more demanding example eg.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Which allows for simultaneous WAVE and ASIO sound input with 5.1 multi channel on WDM and stereo support on ASIO. Incoming channels then split to crossover and DRC filters for a 3-way L/R, 2 way center, 2 way surrounds and two independently filtered LFE subs.
Such a configuration can easily be scaled back for less demanding tasks providing you work within and understand the limitations of ASIO, WDM and your sound drivers/hardware.
A write up would take time so if anyone else wants to go ahead then be my guest but if not then I'll get round to it if there's interest.
Is it possible using the approach outlined in this thread to take the multi-channel LPCM output from a Blu-ray player (Panasonic BD35) and output it through Console into a 5.1 or 7.1 system with DRC? I run all my inputs into a Lumagen Radiance XD video processor. This unit allows me to output the audio via HDMI (1.1).
Mike
Mike
Hi Mike
I'm guessing there's no DRM nonsense since you mention PCM and HDMI 1.1 so theoretically yes but in reality no.
Problem is hardware and driver support on the PC for HDMI is still in the dark ages and you cannot output audio correctly using Console. Sound hardware manufacturers see this as a tiny niche market but since most pro sound cards never have to worry about a consumer format such as HDMI and only concern themselves with the mastering or editing then the focus is on regular analogue and digital I/O such as SPDIF, AES, ADAT etc. Little to no useful HDMI support.
All you need to do is look at the state of bluray/HDDVD playback to realise something more complicated like this is going to be a headache at best.
As always time heals all and solutions will appear sooner or later.
I'm guessing there's no DRM nonsense since you mention PCM and HDMI 1.1 so theoretically yes but in reality no.
Problem is hardware and driver support on the PC for HDMI is still in the dark ages and you cannot output audio correctly using Console. Sound hardware manufacturers see this as a tiny niche market but since most pro sound cards never have to worry about a consumer format such as HDMI and only concern themselves with the mastering or editing then the focus is on regular analogue and digital I/O such as SPDIF, AES, ADAT etc. Little to no useful HDMI support.
All you need to do is look at the state of bluray/HDDVD playback to realise something more complicated like this is going to be a headache at best.
As always time heals all and solutions will appear sooner or later.
ShinOBIWAN said:
ShinOBIWAN,
Thanks for the response. If one were to copy a BD onto the hard drive using http://www.slysoft.com/en/anydvdhd.html . Might it then be possible to use something like Theatretek to extract the lossless audio for use by your approach?
Mike
mikela said:
Hi again Mike,
Yes no problem with that solution or similar ones. Its actually what I do - rip down the bluray, remove copy protection, encode video in H.264, encode audio in AC3 PCM and then store on media server.
I've got around 200 DVD's and 50 blurays stored in this fashion. Works great and means I have all music and video stored on one server from where it can be accessed from either the front room or listening room via NAS and wireless streaming.
ShinOBIWAN,
Sounds like you have an ideal setup. This looks like the route I may eventually go. I will still need to find a way to get the video out of the pc and into my Lumagen Radiance as that is what I have used to calibrate (alter the color gamut) my JVC RS1. The Radiance probably isn't necessary to clean up the Blu-ray video but it is necessary for Directv. Not sure if DTV will be outputting the lossless audio codecs or not. I will probably just send SPDIF from the DTV box to the pc.
Thanks for detailing your process. I have read this thread twice now with great interest. I currently own a DEQX HDP3 which I recently upgraded from the 2.6P. I haven't even tried it in my system yet, although, I used the 2.6P in my system for several years. I believe the additionaly flexibility and multi-channel support of your approach may be worth the effort.
Just for clarification: are you storing lossless audio?
Regards,
Mike
Sounds like you have an ideal setup. This looks like the route I may eventually go. I will still need to find a way to get the video out of the pc and into my Lumagen Radiance as that is what I have used to calibrate (alter the color gamut) my JVC RS1. The Radiance probably isn't necessary to clean up the Blu-ray video but it is necessary for Directv. Not sure if DTV will be outputting the lossless audio codecs or not. I will probably just send SPDIF from the DTV box to the pc.
Thanks for detailing your process. I have read this thread twice now with great interest. I currently own a DEQX HDP3 which I recently upgraded from the 2.6P. I haven't even tried it in my system yet, although, I used the 2.6P in my system for several years. I believe the additionaly flexibility and multi-channel support of your approach may be worth the effort.
Just for clarification: are you storing lossless audio?
Regards,
Mike
Hi Shin,
Would you mind to share the way you put your NAS using wireless access?
I am looking for a solution to store my music (FLAC) on some kind of NAS accessed through wifi from my EEEPC, process it with Foobar(convolution with DRC generated FIR) and stream it over the wifi to my Apple Airport Express via AIRFOIL. The rest is a Lavry DA10 and a pair of Dynaudio BM6mkII
That would free me from any cable and give me a neat (EEEPC) remote control.
cheers
Mickael
Would you mind to share the way you put your NAS using wireless access?
I am looking for a solution to store my music (FLAC) on some kind of NAS accessed through wifi from my EEEPC, process it with Foobar(convolution with DRC generated FIR) and stream it over the wifi to my Apple Airport Express via AIRFOIL. The rest is a Lavry DA10 and a pair of Dynaudio BM6mkII
That would free me from any cable and give me a neat (EEEPC) remote control.
cheers
Mickael
My NAS itself has wireless capability:
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/140944
Then all you need is a suitable client at the other end such as:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showp...ediaPlayer 450 WLAN HDMI NAS Media Enclosure (30528)
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/140944
Then all you need is a suitable client at the other end such as:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showp...ediaPlayer 450 WLAN HDMI NAS Media Enclosure (30528)
Hi Shin,
I understand that if I want to use the same computer as playback source and as convolution using Convolver, I need to route the output of the program like DVDPower back to the input so that Convolver can get the signal. I am planning to buy RME AES32 which has 16 channels out.
If I use 5.1 playback, say AES 1 -6 which is than route to AES 1-6 input. (6 channels are used to route back) and I am left with 10 channels for convolver to use as output (AES 7-16). Am I correct?
I understand that if I want to use the same computer as playback source and as convolution using Convolver, I need to route the output of the program like DVDPower back to the input so that Convolver can get the signal. I am planning to buy RME AES32 which has 16 channels out.
If I use 5.1 playback, say AES 1 -6 which is than route to AES 1-6 input. (6 channels are used to route back) and I am left with 10 channels for convolver to use as output (AES 7-16). Am I correct?
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.