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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 13th August 2005, 03:35 PM   #1
amirmk is offline amirmk  Israel
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Default Highest Quality 2-way

I'm looking for a design for a 2 Way design that would perform like a 4,000$ pair from the store, maybe even twice. My budget is pretty large, about 1,200$ for the pair, maybe a bit more. Any Great designs you can think of?
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Old 13th August 2005, 04:32 PM   #2
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I don't know how much these cost:

http://gedlee.com/Summa.htm
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Old 13th August 2005, 05:46 PM   #3
amirmk is offline amirmk  Israel
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Thank you, but this isn't exactly what i'm looking for. I was thinking more about speakers like the ProAc response 1sc (altough that specific one isn't my favorite)
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Old 13th August 2005, 06:19 PM   #4
Pallas is offline Pallas  Pakistan
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Little speakers don't in general perform well. Some of them use various parlor tricks to fool the unexperienced listener into thinking they have actual bass and dynamics, but the illusion only holds so long as one doesn't listen much to live music or larger speakers. In general, I find the difference between an inexpensive but well-designed small speaker and an expensive but well-designed small speaker to be mostly aesthetic, not sonic.

However, if it's a small speaker you want, you'd do much worse than to emulate the Gradient Prelude. While they have all of the disadvantages of small speakers, at least they have decently controlled directivity by minimonitor standards. While you can't buy the Gradient driver, the closest thing you can get is the Seas H1144 or their new H1133.
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Old 13th August 2005, 06:53 PM   #5
derf is offline derf  United Kingdom
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Indeed, with such a sizable budget, why not go 3-way?

Try to fill us in a bit more on your situation...
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Old 13th August 2005, 07:07 PM   #6
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I would disagree Pallas.

I find most two ways to have a more accurate midrange than larger speakers. With 3 ways you're often adding crossovers into this most critical range of our hearing and you're positioning bass speakers in places that are best for stereo reproduction, but not for bass because of the complex room nodes they create.

IMO, amirmk, the best two ways I've heard have been actively biamplified studio monitors. I have yet to hear a better two way under $4000 than the Mackie HR824s which cost about $1200. These are pretty much the standard in recording studios here in North America. Furthermore, I don't know how you build a better 2 way with 4 great drivers, 4 amps, active crossovers and waveguides for the tweeters for that price.

Their one drawback is there, uh, "industrial" look but for the money I can't imgaine a better sound. These are usually carried at musical instrument stores if you can find them in your area, they are worth a listen.
http://mackie.com/products/hr824/index.html
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Old 13th August 2005, 07:07 PM   #7
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3 way is the ticket.

Use a recipe similar to this one.

Finally, my new LAMBDA-PHL-Esg3 speakers are done. Check them out.
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Old 13th August 2005, 08:02 PM   #8
amirmk is offline amirmk  Israel
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I see. The thing is, i don't want to use amplified speakers because i spend most of my time building amplifiers, and i'm just looking for a great pair of speakers to go with them.

A three way is fine, not a major diffrence for me. I do rather have them pretty compact as they are for my music room which is pretty small. In the living room i have my clone of Audes Orpheus, the external design is copied and i'm voicing the XO. I've used real wood, beautiful cherry wood.
For those speakers I will use either a SE or a PP 2a3, maybe a PSE EL84. I think that a three way could use the Morel dome midrange, a Seas Tweeter (like the one in the Orpheus, I just love them) and some woofer.
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Old 13th August 2005, 08:19 PM   #9
Pallas is offline Pallas  Pakistan
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Quote:
Originally posted by conscious
I find most two ways to have a more accurate midrange than larger speakers.
Don't get me wrong. I like 2-ways, too. I bet the Gedlee Summa linked-to above would blow me away. I just don't like small speakers (no matter how many "ways" they have) for anything but nearfield or background listening. Complex music requires cone area, IMO.

Quote:
Originally posted by conscious
With 3 ways you're often adding crossovers into this most critical range of our hearing and you're positioning bass speakers in places that are best for stereo reproduction, but not for bass because of the complex room nodes they create.
Actually, besides the bass issues you point out the biggest problem I have with multiway speakers is that they're often designed with little attention paid to power-response. Whereas the typical 2-way - not a well-designed one with either a concentric tweeter or a separate tweeter loaded in a waveguide, but one with drivers just flush mounted on a baffle - only has one set of "horns" in the power response due to the spreading of the polar response at the tweeter's bottom end, a multiway can have several such "horns". The ultimate audio irony, IMO, is a large multiway speaker with a postage stamp-sized sweet spot. (Dunlavy, anyone?)
I think we're talking about the same thing when you mention crossovers in the critical range.

Quote:
Originally posted by conscious
IMO, amirmk, the best two ways I've heard have been actively biamplified studio monitors. I have yet to hear a better two way under $4000 than the Mackie HR824s which cost about $1200. These are pretty much the standard in recording studios here in North America. Furthermore, I don't know how you build a better 2 way with 4 great drivers, 4 amps, active crossovers and waveguides for the tweeters for that price.
You're probably right. That's a well-designed speaker, with a largish woofer (9" as opposed to the 4"-6" stuff in many minimonitors) and appropriate crossover frequency, waveguide-loaded tweeter to maintain directivity at the crossover point, and so on. With a subwoofer, I bet it would be great for a top-notch home audio or HT system. It's not a large speaker, maybe, but I think you can fit four of the above-mentioned ProAc Tablettes in the same volume.

However, the studio monitor that's really interesting to me is the new Tannoy Precision 8D: dual concentric + supertweeter, dual class D amps per speaker with analog and digital inputs, but most interesting of all Mac/other compatible automatic calibration software! About $1800 but tons of interesting technology and a can't-be-beat heritage behind that one.
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Old 13th August 2005, 09:44 PM   #10
derf is offline derf  United Kingdom
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Quote:
I find most two ways to have a more accurate midrange than larger speakers. With 3 ways you're often adding crossovers into this most critical range of our hearing and you're positioning bass speakers in places that are best for stereo reproduction, but not for bass because of the complex room nodes they create.
I would think dipole bass crossing over to a 8 or 10" open baffle midrange around 200-300hz up to 1.5-3k would help nullify such problems somewhat. Tweeter?, ribbon or horn I suspect, pick your poison...

Of course, dipolar bass doesn't come small, I'd be thinking along the lines of at least 2 x 15"/18" drivers per side.

I have a feeling this may be too big...

With your budget and enough space, this is the kind of direction I'd head in.
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