Highest Quality 2-way

[454Casull]

Originally posted by Pallas


Don't get me wrong. I like 2-ways, too. I bet the Gedlee Summa linked-to above would blow me away. I just don't like small speakers (no matter how many "ways" they have) for anything but nearfield or background listening. Complex music requires cone area, IMO.

A 15" driver doesn't have enough cone area?

[ucla88]

Well, I agree that two ways are limited. If you don't need the spl though, then they can actually work quite well.

I would consider one of JonMarsh's designs over at HTGuide. Consider the MTM if you need the extra output as this given the cone area of a 10" on the low end. Both the Seas 27TDFC/TBFG and the Dayton RS28A are quite good and can be driven low. Jon's low xover point and steep slope offers better than average power response. Certainly better than the Mackie which is a 8.75" crossed at 1800. The eliptic xovers are well thought out and give the same group delay, more or less, as a standard 4LR. The RS180's perform very well, with better linearity than the 8545's and just a bit less low end extension. Conceptually, Jon's box tuning makes quite a bit of sense as well.

A three way could be better, but low end extension would have to be carefully matched to the room.

[Bill Hobba]

Originally posted by amirmk
I'm looking for a design for a 2 Way design that would perform like a 4,000$ pair from the store, maybe even twice. My budget is pretty large, about 1,200$ for the pair, maybe a bit more. Any Great designs you can think of?

I do not know if these are the best 2 ways around since best is purely subjective and can have multiple meanings but I think the following Jim Giffin design would be bloody good -
http://www.audioroundtable.com/Singl...sages/950.html
They beat some tough competion at Atlanta -
http://maxhawk.bravepages.com/diyatl/2004results.htm
The PHL system it beat is very similar to a well respected audiophile system sold by Zalyton.

For an all out assault you may like to consider a DEQX equalized Accuton 5inch bass and Raven tweeter. A person whose opinon I respect says it sounds 'really good'.

Some posters have mentioned problems with bass and you may like to consider a 3 way. I am with Jim Griffin who says 'I'm not much on the Jordan factory TL plans as you can not get chest thumping bass from a driver this size with any bass alignment in my opinion. My vented mini-monitors have enough extension (down to low 50's Hz) and it is so easy to pick-up the lowest octave with a true subwoofer that I suggest that you aim in that direction.'

Thanks
Bill

[conscious]

Just to be clear, amirmk those Mackie's include the amps, so you just need a preamp to run them.

I haven't heard those Tannoy's, Pallas, but after looking at them on the website I sure like to.

[Audiophilenoob]

Originally posted by conscious
I would disagree Pallas.

I find most two ways to have a more accurate midrange than larger speakers. With 3 ways you're often adding crossovers into this most critical range of our hearing and you're positioning bass speakers in places that are best for stereo reproduction, but not for bass because of the complex room nodes they create.

IMO, amirmk, the best two ways I've heard have been actively biamplified studio monitors. I have yet to hear a better two way under $4000 than the Mackie HR824s which cost about $1200. These are pretty much the standard in recording studios here in North America. Furthermore, I don't know how you build a better 2 way with 4 great drivers, 4 amps, active crossovers and waveguides for the tweeters for that price.

Their one drawback is there, uh, "industrial" look but for the money I can't imgaine a better sound. These are usually carried at musical instrument stores if you can find them in your area, they are worth a listen.
http://mackie.com/products/hr824/index.html

I'm really gonna have to disagree about the 3-way... but to each his own

I find that actively setup 3-way with tweeter xover at normal 2-way range (2.5khz or so) is astronomically superior to most 2-way's I've heard

I do understand about bass concerns... but bass problems realistically won't be that much worse than just a single sub... unless the sub is measured and optimally placed in a specifically designed room with bass traps...

at least that's from my limited experience

[amirmk]

I've heard some people talking about the Jordan JX92, but i don't know. Four inches? even if it is crystal clear and has amazing highs, just how low can it go? On the other hand, i've seen online the Fostex F200A and FE207E That look pretty interensting when combined with a good tweeter.

I've been looking at the Scan Speak 8545 7" woofer and the 9500 tweeter, what do you think? What kind of enclosure should i use? I plan to do extensive experimenting with the XO, like i'm doing with my orpheus clone.

[derf]

Full range drivers are a whole different can of worms, most have some quite severe resonances throughout their bandwidth, usually encouraged by the makers so the driver can reach a higher frequency. Fostex are among the worst offenders when it comes to this, to my ears creating one problem to solve another(lesser problem) is a false economy.

TBH, if I was you, I'd stick with a 2/3way, using the largest, highest fidelity drivers you can fit in your living space.

[amirmk]

That is the problem, the room is very small. about 2*4m.
Two meters is not very much at all, so i thought i'd use monitors, compact 2-Ways using the highest quality 6-8" woofer and a Scan Speak 9700 or Seas Millenium. I have serious wood working skills, i used to work as an assistant to a cabin maker, i've built all kinds of closets and kitchens.

[derf]

Ah, now we get down to the nitty gritty . I think your room size probably rules out 3 ways, so lets focus on 2 way.

Are they going to be on stands or mounted on the wall?. If they're mounted on the wall, it'll probably rule out anything beyond an 8" woofer, as it will require too much box volume.

[conscious]

I would agree, a-noob that an actively crossed 3 way can and should be better than an actively crossed 2 way, but I was talking about within the budget given.

Actually, this bring up the real point that I was making, which was that active speakers are so much more superior than passive. Many believe that they can overcome this by purchasing better drivers but passive crossovers always introduce problems with phase shift, delay, voltage ringing in capacitors, inductor compression, complimentary induction between inductors, compression from heat generation in resistors and capacitors, variances in component values (usually +/-10%) and decoupling of the amp from the driver (e.g. damping factor).

The fact that you can get this all very well sorted out for you in a pair of Mackies for $1200 seems like the deal of the century.