'Perceive v2.0' Construction Diary

[Audiophilenoob]

Originally posted by tktran


That's overkill... or at least killing your chamfer bit.

AFAIK the W22EX001 IS the lowest distortion driver between 150 and 1.5K Hz, and should make a excellent upper bass and low midrange driver in a 4 way or 3 way + subwoofers.

is this test done at full input RMS???
because that changes everything
also just because it's the lowest tested doesn't mean it's the lowest around

[ShinOBIWAN]

Originally posted by Audiophilenoob
I guess I should keep out of your threads because you can't take a compliment without resorting to childish games

Childish? Yes. Call me young at heart I guess.

Your more than welcome to post in any thread here but please keep the school playground banter out, lest it be met with similar retort.

Inteligent and constructive critism is most definitely welcomed though rather than this

"... why you didn't go with better drivers than the Seas"

"... if only they sound as good as they look"

oh and BTW... the PHL owns the ATC... I'm surprised you didn't know this... well it certainly owns it in SPL... also I wouldn't be surprised in SQ either

94dB vs 96dB so yes your right it does own it by a small margin in 2.83v/1m terms. Your quite mistaken if you think that has anything remotely to do with sound quality though.

The ATC is easily the best mid range I've heard and with things like an underhung voice coil, 2.1T magnetic flux density, wave guide for controlled directivity in the upper range, no rear wave and virtually non existant moving mass its easy to see why.

I've never heard the PHL nor have you heard the ATC so I'm sure this argument isn't worth the time of day. I'd guess 95% of folks on here would take the ATC, its held in higher esteem than the PHL, they aren't cheap though at $600 each but that's good value when you take a listen because any other driver I've heard sounds coloured in comparison.

Here's a quote taken from the LSDG:

"The SM75-150S 3" midrange dome has achieved almost legendary status. Not cheap, but almost everyone who has ever heard one picks it as the ultimate in conventional dynamic midrange drivers"

I'd have to agree with that after actually listening to it

you should be proud... they look like they're going to be fanatastic... I was just curious why you switched to seas... not that I doubt they'll be superior to the orginial speakers

Differences aside, cheers.

[ShinOBIWAN]

Originally posted by Audiophilenoob


is this test done at full input RMS???
because that changes everything
also just because it's the lowest tested doesn't mean it's the lowest around

Please show me lower then?

The Accutons are close in the 80hz - 400hz range I'm using them.

Besides there's more to the W22 than just low distortion figures.

[Audiophilenoob]

Originally posted by ShinOBIWAN


Childish? Yes. Call me young at heart I guess.

Your more than welcome to post in any thread here but please keep the school playground banter out, lest it be met with similar retort.

Inteligent and constructive critism is most definitely welcomed though rather than this

"... why you didn't go with better drivers than the Seas"

"... if only they sound as good as they look"



94dB vs 96dB so yes your right it does own it by a small margin in 2.83v/1m terms. Your quite mistaken if you think that has anything remotely to do with sound quality though.

The ATC is easily the best mid range I've heard and with things like an underhung voice coil, 2.1T magnetic flux density, wave guide for controlled directivity in the upper range, no rear wave and virtually non existant moving mass its easy to see why.

I've never heard the PHL nor have you heard the ATC so I'm sure this argument isn't worth the time of day. I'd guess 95% of folks on here would take the ATC, its held in higher esteem than the PHL, they aren't cheap though at $600 each but that's good value when you take a listen because any other driver I've heard sounds coloured in comparison.

Here's a quote taken from the LSDG:

"The SM75-150S 3" midrange dome has achieved almost legendary status. Not cheap, but almost everyone who has ever heard one picks it as the ultimate in conventional dynamic midrange drivers"

I'd have to agree with that after actually listening to it



Differences aside, cheers.

sadly for you... there was one person I believe who's heard them both

also the comment about I hope they sound as good as the look... was genuine... I really do hope they sound that good .... cause they look fantastic

dome midranges don't really do it for me... and I've heard a few... (Accuton ceramic) etc

if the ATC is great... GREAT!! I'm happy for you.... however the same thing can be said for those who hear the PHL 1120... they always love it over drivers like the Seas, Focal 6.5", etc... and always seem to say it's the best thing they've ever experienced... talk to andre at E-speakers... and others

Also the PHL 1120 can reach levels of 116 db over it's entire response frequency... the ATC can not do that... no matter it's efficency

as far as everything's concerned I can EASILY afford to swap my incredibly hard to get PHL 1120's (I have the last 3 new ones in america right now... that are available anywhere) for the ATCs... but I highly doubt they'll be any gain...

as far as SQ is concerned the PHL is considered the top of the line by anyone who's heard it... and I can count these on a single hand that I know of... they are considered the most dynamic pure midrange available... even above the ATC by the single person I know that's heard both... and I WOULD have to agree with him after hearing mine...

How did we even get to talking about my favorite speaker... in your thread???

I am really happy though you went with such a nice midrange... it's a VERY VERY good driver... good to see someone go for a high efficency top of the line speaker for a change

[Audiophilenoob]

Originally posted by ShinOBIWAN


Please show me lower then?

The Accutons are close in the 80hz - 400hz range I'm using them.

Besides there's more to the W22 than just low distortion figures.

I don't do testing like that

but I would if I could....

I'm simply pointing out that a statement that they are the lowest isn't true when quite a few very high end speakers haven't been tested

anyway It's finally below 100 degrees here... so I need to be outside working on my speaker project so that it's finished by tuesday...

congrats on your design

[ShinOBIWAN]

dome midranges don't really do it for me... and I've heard a few... (Accuton ceramic) etc

Your noobness is showing through, since only idiots would make such a sweeping statement, its just like saying 'cones don't do it for me' - they're all different so why put them all in one basket?

The Accuton isn't anything like the ATC its actually an inverted dome with many design differences, but still. I also don't like the Vifa dome or Morel that I've heard - would much rather choose a good cone over them and I think most others would agree.

Also the PHL 1120 can reach levels of 116 db over it's entire response frequency... the ATC can not do that... no matter it's efficency

94dB eff. and 150w handling vs. 96dB eff. and 130w. Looks more like Royal Gala vs. Golden delicious rather than an apples and oranges difference.

ATC actually build studio monitors first and foremost, take a look at the SCM300:

http://www.atc.gb.net/scm_range/scm300aslpro.html

121db Max Continuous SPL @ 1 metre doesn't sound bad for a speaker with a single mid.

Besides at 116dB distortion figures aren't going to impressive. Who listens to levels over 100dB anyway? I'd bet its only the elderly who are already deaf and if you listen at those levels regularly you'll need speakers with 100db+ eff. to hear owt because you'll already be half deaf from the abuse you've given your ears already!

as far as everything's concerned I can EASILY afford to swap my incredibly hard to get PHL 1120's (I have the last 3 new ones in america right now... that are available anywhere) for the ATCs... but I highly doubt they'll be any gain...

When you build your next system, give with the ATC's a try in a line array since you can easily afford them. I find it amusing when folks start to brag about the size of their wallet, perhaps to cover up other inadequacies?

sadly for you... there are quite a few people I've talked to who've heard teh ATC and PHL

Wait a minute... later in that very same post you state:

they are considered the most dynamic pure midrange available... even above the ATC by the single person I know that's heard both... and I WOULD have to agree with him after hearing mine...

Which is it? A single person or quite a few people who've heard and prefered the PHL to the ATC?

Either you've got Alzheimer’s or you're a liar.

Judging on past antics as the somewhat dishonest feandil, I'd suggest that your actually talking rubbish again.

TIP: You need a good memory to be a liar.

[Audiophilenoob]

Originally posted by ShinOBIWAN


Your noobness is showing through, since only idiots would make such a sweeping statement, its just like saying 'cones don't do it for me' - they're all different so why put them all in one basket?

The Accuton isn't anything like the ATC its actually an inverted dome with many design differences, but still. I also don't like the Vifa dome or Morel that I've heard - would much rather choose a good cone over them and I think most others would agree.



94dB eff. and 150w handling vs. 96dB eff. and 130w. Looks more like Royal Gala vs. Golden delicious rather than an apples and oranges difference.

ATC actually build studio monitors first and foremost, take a look at the SCM300:

http://www.atc.gb.net/scm_range/scm300aslpro.html

121db Max Continuous SPL @ 1 metre doesn't sound bad for a speaker with a single mid.

Besides at 116dB distortion figures aren't going to impressive. Who listens to levels over 100dB anyway? I'd bet its only the elderly who are already deaf and if you listen at those levels regularly you'll need speakers with 100db+ eff. to hear owt because you'll already be half deaf from the abuse you've given your ears already!



When you build your next system, give with the ATC's a try in a line array since you can easily afford them. I find it amusing when folks start to brag about the size of their wallet, perhaps to cover up other inadequacies?




Wait a minute... later in that very same post you state:



Which is it? A single person or quite a few people who've heard and prefered the PHL to the ATC?

Either you've got Alzheimer’s or you're a liar.

Judging on past antics as the somewhat dishonest feandil, I'd suggest that your actually talking rubbish again.

TIP: You need a good memory to be a liar.

if you note I edited the message for accurancy... I only know of one person (Andre at e-speakers) who's heard both... and my memory is fuzzy if it was him or not... I suggest emailing him and asking as I think he is a retailer for both products... I know that his favorite pure midrange a year ago was the PHL 1120

You are correct but the dome midrange point was something from my limited experience I wanted to insert

you are too quick to defend... and don't listen

I can't afford the line array of them, nor would I want a line array of them... but I easily could have afforded them over the 1120s... price difference is minute when one talks about something as key as the midrange... and I did buy 4 1120s

I'm not going to state the the ATC is better than the PHL... or visa versa... and neither should you... they are designed for very similar purposes and very fantastic and dynamic audio reproduction

I would like to hear the ATC... and may buy one given the new light a few pages of reviews I've just read speaks of them

I'm curious though how you plan to match the massive efficency of the ATC to the Seas... surely you don't want to "limit" the dynamic nature of the ATC to better match the Seas

I really don't know why you want to pick a fight... maybe because you spent so much on drivers... I'm unsure... but I really don't want to get into it with you when they are so comparable to begin with

[tktran]

Come on guys let's take easy. Have a few beers or something.

I find it interesting that people take comments about their driver choices very personally, as if it's a attack on the person. I call it as I see it, because after all, this is a DIY Audio community

I don't like to add fuel to the fire, but here's the PHL 1120. It's not the be all and end all.
http://206.13.113.199/ncdiyaudio/mar...20/PHL1120.htm
Similarly here's the ATC SM75-150S- according to LDSG it's got a big jump in distortion below 2KHz.
http://ldsg.snippets.org/vendors/atc.php3

Let's be honest- who wants to know that their uber-expensive 3" mid-dome or 6" high sensivity midrange is only "reasonably well" in measurements?

I don't mean any offend anyone, but instead of being stubborn or fanatical about a particular brand or model of drivers, if we open our eyes and ears, there's a whole world of new possibilities out there. And isn't that half the fun of DIY audio?

I'm glad to say I'm a speaker slut- faithful to no particular brand or model. The best speaker is the one that redefines VALUE- the best-in-price class.

[Audiophilenoob]

Originally posted by tktran
I find it interesting that people take comments about their driver choices very personally, as if it's a attack on the person. I call it as I see it, because after all, this is a DIY Audio community

I don't like to add fuel to the fire, but here's the PHL 1120:
http://206.13.113.199/ncdiyaudio/mar...20/PHL1120.htm

But let's be honest- who wants to know that their uber-expensive 3" mid-dome or 6" high sensivity midrange is only medicore in measurements?

I know I wouldn't. I don't mean any offence to anyone, but instead of being stubborn or fanatical about a particular brand or model of drivers, there's a whole world of possibilities out there.

I'm glad to say I'm a speaker slut- faithful to no particular brand or model. The best speaker is the one that redefines VALUE. It's not every often that a $30 tweeter comes along that knocks the $150 off its perch.

those measurements are quite good and better than 1 watt measurements I've seen

also measurements aren't all that matters... as many people hate the Seas for midrange duty

I like to listen with my ears rather than on paper...

either way... the numbers that PHL did weren't medicore... they were quite good in fact considering the volume of the music it was tested at

I would like to see the Seas at 95 db vs the PHL at 95 db which is what I would consider I fair comparison as both drivers are at the same output level

from that test what should be noted is that the PHL is fantastic in distortion figures for midrange duty ... one of best period... it's not designed to be crossed lower than 400 hz... and the 800 hz distortion is incredibly low

this makes me very curious for ATC tests... I'm sure they're this good or better.... but damn those are some nice numbers to begin with

the distortion figures are only bested by the Seas... which makes you wonder what that seas would measure with real input... say 100 db on the PHL vs 100 db on the Seas

[pinkmouse]

I have heard both. I like both. They are excellent drivers for different applications. I would use either quite happily if I had the money to buy them.

Oh, to make it official-

Chill, guys.