It seems so. I made this only last night and made only a couple of quick measurements.
The straight horn in this size seems to load the Neo from 400-2.5k. Below 400Hz I had to add a plateau of about 4db, then the neo was essentially flat from 200-20k. I think a bigger horn would load lower on the expense an earlier HF rolloff. As my crossover is at 265Hz, I'm happy with the size.
The straight horn in this size seems to load the Neo from 400-2.5k. Below 400Hz I had to add a plateau of about 4db, then the neo was essentially flat from 200-20k. I think a bigger horn would load lower on the expense an earlier HF rolloff. As my crossover is at 265Hz, I'm happy with the size.
Andypairo said:
Check out the push-push sub thread and the cheap SET thread -- i've just posted push-push pics in both that aren't on my site... and there are some examples on my site too (mostly in the FALL section).
Push-push just means mounting the drivers in the relative configuration shown below... usually it is not practical to get the magnets touching (which is ideal). In this case the speaker needs magnetic shielding, which the magnet-to-magnet provides.
dave
Attachments
Peerless bass for the Neo8.
Hi All,
Thanks for all the suggestions. I searched the web for 8 inch and 10 inch drivers with smooth response above 700Hz till it rolled off. Many have severe cone break up beyond 2KHz. The 8 inch units were much better generally. Paper and PP cones seemed to be a bit smoother . Then I accidentally came across the response of the Peerless 12 inch driver 831857 and was surprised that it looked relatively flat over its whole range except for a dip just after 500Hz. You can find this driver in the Peerless Classic range at http://www.d-s-t.com/main/index.htm
I just happen to have a pair of these drivers. One is boxed in a sealed enclosure and is a down firing sub and generally not used.
So I put it on a stool and set the Planar Neo8 on top. Crossed over at 700Hz and bi amped. The system sounds very good. The box is not very good and I will have to build a narrower and taller one.
Vocals are good and bass is deep and tight. The system will not beat other expensive implementations. BUT it still sounds very good. I think some tweaking and a lower crossover frequency will make things even better. The drive units cost about $140 per channel. Less than about $300/- for a stereo pair ! I have attached a picture of the quick implementation I made. I will tweak the system to see how much better it can get. Note that the dispersion of the 12 inch driver is very good at 500 Hz. The listening test seems to confirm what we see in the graph.
Cheers,
Ashok.
Hi All,
Thanks for all the suggestions. I searched the web for 8 inch and 10 inch drivers with smooth response above 700Hz till it rolled off. Many have severe cone break up beyond 2KHz. The 8 inch units were much better generally. Paper and PP cones seemed to be a bit smoother . Then I accidentally came across the response of the Peerless 12 inch driver 831857 and was surprised that it looked relatively flat over its whole range except for a dip just after 500Hz. You can find this driver in the Peerless Classic range at http://www.d-s-t.com/main/index.htm
I just happen to have a pair of these drivers. One is boxed in a sealed enclosure and is a down firing sub and generally not used.
So I put it on a stool and set the Planar Neo8 on top. Crossed over at 700Hz and bi amped. The system sounds very good. The box is not very good and I will have to build a narrower and taller one.
Vocals are good and bass is deep and tight. The system will not beat other expensive implementations. BUT it still sounds very good. I think some tweaking and a lower crossover frequency will make things even better. The drive units cost about $140 per channel. Less than about $300/- for a stereo pair ! I have attached a picture of the quick implementation I made. I will tweak the system to see how much better it can get. Note that the dispersion of the 12 inch driver is very good at 500 Hz. The listening test seems to confirm what we see in the graph.
Cheers,
Ashok.
Attachments
ashok
Is that true??!
I want to use some BG8s in a (home theatre) bi-amp configuration XO'd to 6.5"s or 7"s; with 12" subs to boot! I've been holding off getting started. Like you I'm searching for the "right" driver to fill that 100hz to 700hz gap. I have all the electronic XOs I need.
Tony
It looks like you cut a hole in a piece of wood, mounted the BG from the rear and made your amp connections.
Is that true??!
I want to use some BG8s in a (home theatre) bi-amp configuration XO'd to 6.5"s or 7"s; with 12" subs to boot! I've been holding off getting started. Like you I'm searching for the "right" driver to fill that 100hz to 700hz gap. I have all the electronic XOs I need.
Tony
Yes I mounted the Neo8 from the rear on a 3mm piece of ply.
The speakers were connected to the amp directly. Th ecrossover was not great. I'm sure it will sound even better with a proper crossover.
Subsequent tests showed that the Neo3 tweeter did help to improve the extreme high end.
I'm traveling so I can't add much right now.
Cheers.
The speakers were connected to the amp directly. Th ecrossover was not great. I'm sure it will sound even better with a proper crossover.
Subsequent tests showed that the Neo3 tweeter did help to improve the extreme high end.
I'm traveling so I can't add much right now.
Cheers.
If you look at one of the new VMPS designs (and I'm not saying that's anything to go by) they're essentially doing the reverse. The ribbon is emminating through a slot with a throat opening to the rear.
Justification for this is?
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=34680.0
Justification for this is?
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=34680.0
Comparison between line source and point source Speakres
Hi Tomahack,
I have been impressed from your line source speakers as well as from our point source speakers both using Neo8 transducers plus Neo3 in the point source, from your post of 05-15-2003.
As some times has passing by and I didn´t see any other feedback from you on these two different speakers, I would like to know if you are now able to describe the differences of these two systems and your probable preference.
The reason behind my interest is that I´m planing to build new speakers but did not decide yet if it should be a line- or point source. My today´s system is a point source dipole system using FOSTEX RP21 and RP41 Magnetostats together with a Mundorf 2340 AMT which is a very nice sounding combination. Unfortunately due to the degradation of the neodym magnets of the FOSTEX transducers the system starts now to produce some distorsions at higher sound levels which forces me to look for new transducers as FOSTEX can´t magnetize the transducers any more.
Could you please be so kind and describe your findings which probably would be of interest for other members to.
Many thanks.
Hell and sky
Hi Tomahack,
I have been impressed from your line source speakers as well as from our point source speakers both using Neo8 transducers plus Neo3 in the point source, from your post of 05-15-2003.
As some times has passing by and I didn´t see any other feedback from you on these two different speakers, I would like to know if you are now able to describe the differences of these two systems and your probable preference.
The reason behind my interest is that I´m planing to build new speakers but did not decide yet if it should be a line- or point source. My today´s system is a point source dipole system using FOSTEX RP21 and RP41 Magnetostats together with a Mundorf 2340 AMT which is a very nice sounding combination. Unfortunately due to the degradation of the neodym magnets of the FOSTEX transducers the system starts now to produce some distorsions at higher sound levels which forces me to look for new transducers as FOSTEX can´t magnetize the transducers any more.
Could you please be so kind and describe your findings which probably would be of interest for other members to.
Many thanks.
Hell and sky
Oh boy! It's been a long time since then... I made many iterations of the line array with various tweeters and midwoofers. This is my last version. I now use nine widebands with no Xover ( MaxFidelity PR65Neo) and one Fountek Pro5i with a 3,3uF cap. The lines are curved open baffles 102dB/watt . Subs are MaxFidelity 21" in sealed boxes. So far best setup by a large margin. The main difference between a line and a point source is the radiation pattern. With a line, the sound is more holographic. You are part of the music. Presentation is very forward. Soundstage is immense with abyssal depth. If you like to be seated in the front row of a concert, this is it. If you prefered a more laid back approach, a point source might be a better choice.
Never tried the Mundorf ribbon. Look like a nice tweeter. Raal's are very impressive.
http://www.raalribbon.com/
Never tried the Mundorf ribbon. Look like a nice tweeter. Raal's are very impressive.
http://www.raalribbon.com/
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Yes, it´s been a longe time since... and the technologies are changing as well as our tasts for music and our sence for listening too.
Since 2003 I have made only few iterations of my basic design, because I have been happy with this system.
With all your iterations and new designs, do you have still time to listen to music?
Now I have another question:
What has been the reason to switch from ribbon transducers (i.e. magnetostats) to widebands?
I still tend to use magnetostats in OB - my favored are still the FOSTEX unfortunately nor more manufactured - or AMT´s for their dynamic reproduction and very low distorsions. Low distorsions in my opinion are the fundamentals for relaxed listening to classical music, especially big orchestra or to big-band Jazz.
Since the AMT-patents are expired a lot of new constructions are emerging, unfortunately also a lot of Bulls..
The Mundorf AMT´s, from which I have tested the 2340 type as tweeter from 4,5kHz on used as real dipole, gave me full satisfaction. Just now I have recieved two 2830 for test, which I will try for the mids from 1.5kHz to 4.5kHz in d`Appolito configuration. Below them I intent to use 18sound 6ND430, four below and four on top of the mids and tweeter in line array.
Unfortunately the Mundorf´s are very expensive (~650 US$) per piece, thus I´m still considering to try as alternate the BG Neo8 for the mids and Neo3 as tweeter. Can you still recommand them?
Following the Mundorf link for your info:
www.mundorf.com
Since 2003 I have made only few iterations of my basic design, because I have been happy with this system.
With all your iterations and new designs, do you have still time to listen to music?
Now I have another question:
What has been the reason to switch from ribbon transducers (i.e. magnetostats) to widebands?
I still tend to use magnetostats in OB - my favored are still the FOSTEX unfortunately nor more manufactured - or AMT´s for their dynamic reproduction and very low distorsions. Low distorsions in my opinion are the fundamentals for relaxed listening to classical music, especially big orchestra or to big-band Jazz.
Since the AMT-patents are expired a lot of new constructions are emerging, unfortunately also a lot of Bulls..
The Mundorf AMT´s, from which I have tested the 2340 type as tweeter from 4,5kHz on used as real dipole, gave me full satisfaction. Just now I have recieved two 2830 for test, which I will try for the mids from 1.5kHz to 4.5kHz in d`Appolito configuration. Below them I intent to use 18sound 6ND430, four below and four on top of the mids and tweeter in line array.
Unfortunately the Mundorf´s are very expensive (~650 US$) per piece, thus I´m still considering to try as alternate the BG Neo8 for the mids and Neo3 as tweeter. Can you still recommand them?
Following the Mundorf link for your info:
www.mundorf.com
tomahack said:
How are the PR65's on their own? I thought they were midrange drivers with a high fs?
This system is cool! Do you call this a 'point source' due to the central tweeter? It looks like a dipole line mid, point source treble and monopole bass -? Are you doing anything electrical with the mid line or just using it full range?
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