playazinc said:
Um, nope. Go back to Post #2 and reread what it is you wrote. When you're finished there, look around in other threads on this site and get a feel for how others communicate. Once you do that I think you will begin to understand the etiquette used here.
Frankly after reading Post #2, I'm surprised this whole thread wasn't sent directly to Texas...
Mark
sorry if I mischaracterized your experience level playazinc. The point about dropping a totally different driver into an existing xo stands though. It is not a valid comparison, and if you and your father really have the experience you claim, you would realize that, which makes me suspect you are just trolling for reactions here, which is why this will be my last post on the subject. Enjoy your new speakers 
Hi playazinc,
I suggest you spend some time looking at my test results of the m130 and focal 5w. The results may suprise you. The 5W is unable to distinguish itself, and in fact does worse in virtually every test.
Please don't confuse your personal, subjective impression of your system quality with driver performance and value. Your system may indeed sound better with the Focal. You cannot infer that the Focal is a better driver.
Fwiw, I think that there are better choices than the m130, but it's still a suprisingly good performer in its price range. And, based on my test data, it performs better than the 5W, if you believe in that sort of thing.
Mark K's Speaker Pages
I suggest you spend some time looking at my test results of the m130 and focal 5w. The results may suprise you. The 5W is unable to distinguish itself, and in fact does worse in virtually every test.
Please don't confuse your personal, subjective impression of your system quality with driver performance and value. Your system may indeed sound better with the Focal. You cannot infer that the Focal is a better driver.
Fwiw, I think that there are better choices than the m130, but it's still a suprisingly good performer in its price range. And, based on my test data, it performs better than the 5W, if you believe in that sort of thing.
Mark K's Speaker Pages
Well after using Danny's M-130 for a few years now I am another backer for price point,performance for this driver.
Show me a driver that can produce as this one does for the cost!!
Compairing 2 drivers from a cost factor if you want do so price point to price point.Not a $25.00 driver to a driver costing 3-4 times.
As well noted you will never have a crossover that will work for 2 drivers just drop in Imp will change as well as FR for sure.
And I will bet you are getting a lot of IMP deferance for sure between the 2 drivers.
As for cheap M-130.
No try a very well though out driver for the money.
As noted a cheap plastic frame!!
No try the only frame out to the DIY at this time made this way which makes them
-easy to mount
- will not have a resination from the frame to the baffle
- frame itself will not resinate
-As well once mounting a driver with a screw threw any frame you will get a resination but the plastic being top mounted not flush mounted were the edge of the frames tent to touch and cause a transfer of viration from the speaker frame to the baffle, these M-130 drivers do not have that issue at all.
The cone is a teated paper!
Ya I forgot the driver is a $25.00 driver !!
Guess Danny should not be charging that for it.
Al
Show me a driver that can produce as this one does for the cost!!
Compairing 2 drivers from a cost factor if you want do so price point to price point.Not a $25.00 driver to a driver costing 3-4 times.
As well noted you will never have a crossover that will work for 2 drivers just drop in Imp will change as well as FR for sure.
And I will bet you are getting a lot of IMP deferance for sure between the 2 drivers.
As for cheap M-130.
No try a very well though out driver for the money.
As noted a cheap plastic frame!!
No try the only frame out to the DIY at this time made this way which makes them
-easy to mount
- will not have a resination from the frame to the baffle
- frame itself will not resinate
-As well once mounting a driver with a screw threw any frame you will get a resination but the plastic being top mounted not flush mounted were the edge of the frames tent to touch and cause a transfer of viration from the speaker frame to the baffle, these M-130 drivers do not have that issue at all.
The cone is a teated paper!
Ya I forgot the driver is a $25.00 driver !!
Guess Danny should not be charging that for it.
Al
ok im done here, this is the final summation:
1. M130 is constructed out of plastic:Focal has a cast frame
2. Focal has a superior cone material, chec the Bl
3. In my enclosure the focal sounded better.
4. In sound reproduction, at least i look for drivers that make quality sound at a reasonable[/] Iprice, not spend as little $$$ as i can on an inferior driver that has good repriduction. for its price, however i do admit that the friver isnt bad, but as i said before better to spend more $ for great reproduction than very little $ for average reproduction.
im done here.
1. M130 is constructed out of plastic:Focal has a cast frame
2. Focal has a superior cone material, chec the Bl
3. In my enclosure the focal sounded better.
4. In sound reproduction, at least i look for drivers that make quality sound at a reasonable[/] Iprice, not spend as little $$$ as i can on an inferior driver that has good repriduction. for its price, however i do admit that the friver isnt bad, but as i said before better to spend more $ for great reproduction than very little $ for average reproduction.
im done here.
playazinc said:
I think you are taking this wrong. The reason people are hammering you is that you make some generalizations without having a good foundation with which to make them. You also improperly A/Bed a driver and then rudely slammed the product you didn't like which was improperly compared.
As to your points:
There is no reason that plastic is inferior in this application. You may prefer the cast but it has little if nothing to do with driver performance.
We could argue about optimal cone materials until the cows come home. Everyone has their favorite and even the guys with good technical arguements have not won me over. I still like paper as a cone material especially on midrange drivers so superior is relative. I'm not sure what BL has to do with cones?
So... on my car 14" tires work the best. Much better than 33" tires. Thats because I have 14" rims and 33" doesn't fit. It doesn't say anything about the quality of the 33" tires.
You are not going to win points by ripping Dennis Murphy and JohnK and Danny all in one thread.
I understand your point. I like Excel mids as much as you like Focal mids. Given the right design, they are superb. Given a poor design, they can sound harsh or flat. In which case, I would prefer to listen to a good design using cheaper drivers that is well executed... frankly it would not matter if the frame is plastic or cast (though I do like copper phase plugs).
I have listened to Dennis' 1801 and MBOW1 and the M130 does not suck unless you like to use the dialect I hear from friends who like to say ... "It's the ****s" when something is totally RAD or bad @ss. I prefer to say "it doesn't suck".
In the end, your point was confused by your choice in words. Enjoy your speakers.
I understand your point. I like Excel mids as much as you like Focal mids. Given the right design, they are superb. Given a poor design, they can sound harsh or flat. In which case, I would prefer to listen to a good design using cheaper drivers that is well executed... frankly it would not matter if the frame is plastic or cast (though I do like copper phase plugs).
I have listened to Dennis' 1801 and MBOW1 and the M130 does not suck unless you like to use the dialect I hear from friends who like to say ... "It's the ****s" when something is totally RAD or bad @ss. I prefer to say "it doesn't suck".
In the end, your point was confused by your choice in words. Enjoy your speakers.
CalI'm late to the party on this one. But let's see. The M130 costs $25, has decent bass extension, and exceptionally smooth response between 1 kHz and 7 kHz, which allows easy implementation of a second order acoustic crossover. What's not to like, exactly? (I'm not sure which post I'm responding to--I haven't quite figured out how to use this forum--but it's intended as a response to the dude who switched the Focal for the M130 in my design without making any crossover modifications. Perhaps it did sound better to you. But I'm pretty sure which version is more accurate.)
I'm interested in this thread because it is about things
I'm very interested in my audio hobby. People may probably look
at it as a useless discussion, but for me it means a lot.
For me, it is on the top of any audio issue.
Search by keyword 5W4211 and you will find my comment regarding
the Focal driver. The first time I listened to it I just didn't
like it. Some experts recommended changes to xo, try the EGO etc,
but I just couldn't listen. So I have been feeling guilty for
so long because I discredited the driver, asumming that I knew
enough what I was talking about. So I started to asumme that
the driver should be great when implemented correctly. No matter
how difficult it would be, I tried to find the best implementation
for the driver. And the result? I still am very suspicious...
I have built many "good sounding" speakers with it. Many has
been impressed. But I felt that I knew better. I thought, they
just didn't know what a good sound should be. IMO, good sound
is independent of preference. If it is dependant with preference
then it is not valid. Because people might be just impressed with
something awfull.
Drivers are not perfect (at least at the price level). You can't
have everything in one driver. Focals have the good side and the
bad side, so it does not fair either to say Focal is bad because
of the FR.
(Continuous) high level enjoyment is my measure. I have to say
that I have not succeeded yet with this driver!!!
I had a pre-assumption of what characteristics a driver should
have in order that they can provide enjoyable sound.
To me Focal W-cone is like the ring-radiator. They introduce some
new improvements, but seem to sacrifice something else.
Many will be IMPRESSED by the Vifa XT25 ring radiator which I can
wholeheartedly understand. But to me, what an un-enjoyable sound
it produces!
An analogy of the W-cone Focal midwoofer, typically the 5W4211 is
like Vifa PL14. PL14 is in higher class compared to Vifa P13.
Now pick your favourite driver between the two. If you pick PL14,
you might like the Focal. I believe more will pick P13.
Enough for the bull sheet, I will post again next year in case I
would change my opinion
I'm very interested in my audio hobby. People may probably look
at it as a useless discussion, but for me it means a lot.
For me, it is on the top of any audio issue.
Search by keyword 5W4211 and you will find my comment regarding
the Focal driver. The first time I listened to it I just didn't
like it. Some experts recommended changes to xo, try the EGO etc,
but I just couldn't listen. So I have been feeling guilty for
so long because I discredited the driver, asumming that I knew
enough what I was talking about. So I started to asumme that
the driver should be great when implemented correctly. No matter
how difficult it would be, I tried to find the best implementation
for the driver. And the result? I still am very suspicious...
I have built many "good sounding" speakers with it. Many has
been impressed. But I felt that I knew better. I thought, they
just didn't know what a good sound should be. IMO, good sound
is independent of preference. If it is dependant with preference
then it is not valid. Because people might be just impressed with
something awfull.
Drivers are not perfect (at least at the price level). You can't
have everything in one driver. Focals have the good side and the
bad side, so it does not fair either to say Focal is bad because
of the FR.
(Continuous) high level enjoyment is my measure. I have to say
that I have not succeeded yet with this driver!!!
I had a pre-assumption of what characteristics a driver should
have in order that they can provide enjoyable sound.
To me Focal W-cone is like the ring-radiator. They introduce some
new improvements, but seem to sacrifice something else.
Many will be IMPRESSED by the Vifa XT25 ring radiator which I can
wholeheartedly understand. But to me, what an un-enjoyable sound
it produces!
An analogy of the W-cone Focal midwoofer, typically the 5W4211 is
like Vifa PL14. PL14 is in higher class compared to Vifa P13.
Now pick your favourite driver between the two. If you pick PL14,
you might like the Focal. I believe more will pick P13.
Enough for the bull sheet, I will post again next year in case I
would change my opinion
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