How hard to clone the Orions? - diyAudio
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Old 27th June 2005, 03:18 AM   #1
Chaucer is offline Chaucer  United States
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Default How hard to clone the Orions?

After much reading about the Orions I'm 100% sold I want a pair. The only downside? They're only 4x as much as I'd like to spend!

I've never heard a dipole speaker until recently and I can't wait to build a pair of my own. I know the Orions are heavily researched by the great Linkwitz, and also have some massive active crossovers with intense EQing...but what I'm wondering is how close can I get to these with a $1500 budget? I was thinking of going with a Dayton RS225 8" woofer for the mids, the new Dayton RS28A tweeter, and I'm not sure about the woofers yet, but seeing how the Peerless will run me $600 for the 4, I was going to venture down some other road. For argument's sake, let's say I went with the Peerless. I might even go with dual 12s opposed to the dual 10s after reading one review of the Orions.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=295-366

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=275-130

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=297-608

That would be $780 for all the drivers. I will definately be going active and love my Behringer DCX2496 so add in another $250 and we're at $1030. That leaves $470 for materials and amplification to keep it under my budget. Wood, MDF and finishing supplies will only run me $100 so figure $370 for amplification. I'll probably use my Panasonic XR-25 digital that's just sitting here and can put the $370 into a nice Crown or QSC amp and probably be under the $1500 mark.

Now, what do you guys think of this idea? I've also thought about doing an MTM top with dual 7" or 8" Dayton RS woofers, and even thought about using a ribbon tweeter like the Aurum Cantus G2Si.

You tell me. For $1500 against $6000 do you think something like this could hold up to the Orion? I will have the nice built-in EQ of the DCX2496 and have some decent measuring equipment. You guys let me know!

Thanks!
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Old 27th June 2005, 03:37 AM   #2
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This guy has kind of done what you're talking about. He also has a pair of regular Orions that he uses a Behringer DCX2496 with.

http://www.mfk-projects.com/rs_dipole.htm
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Old 27th June 2005, 04:29 AM   #3
AJinFLA is offline AJinFLA  United States
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Hi Chaucer,

the only fly in the ointment that I can see in your setup (and correct me if I am wrong) is the Orion requires 6ch's (I own a hybrid pair). The DCX>XR25 6ch input would allow you to use 4 amp ch's for midbass/treble. But there is only 1 sub preout correct? (Again, I'm not intimately familiar w/ this receiver). This would mean mono below 125hz, even if you split the outs into 2 ch's for your Crown/QSC. Unless I misunderstand how you plan on setting this up, that could be a problem. I'll bet that Monty's setup w/ the RS's will give you a very,very nice rig for that kind of $. I would stick w/ the 10's in his plans, then use the extra $ (perhaps later) for a sealed sub, capable of decent output below 40hz, to relieve the mains and enhance your max SPL quite a bit. SL provides the plans for such:
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/thor-intro.htm
Good luck.



Cheers,

AJ
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Old 27th June 2005, 04:51 AM   #4
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IMHO, if you go open baffle/dipole, you've probably got most of the goal met, whether or not you try to "clone" the Orion.

I think your ideas are sound - build what you can on your budget - and build the design that excites you. I too want to build open baffle, just not in the Orion price range. I don't know much about the Dayton drivers, but get some opinions from other experienced builders here first to see what they recommend in that price point. Configuring the drivers as they are in the Orion will probably be a good idea, and going MTM with smaller diameter mids will have advantages too.

You also are ahead of the game with an existing electronic crossover, so with some good measuring and tweaking to get everything balanced and equalized, I'll bet you'll be very happy with the results.

Please keep us posted on this project!
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Old 27th June 2005, 05:47 AM   #5
AJinFLA is offline AJinFLA  United States
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If you are intent on using the drivers you listed for an actual Orion based clone, the only driver I would reconsider would be the RS225. I would substitute this instead: L22RNX/P (H1252)
Sold @ Madisound (the link on their page for the H1252 is to the H1208 for some reason). http://www.madisound.com/seas.html.
Here is the SEAS link: http://www.seas.no/seas_line/woofers/H1252.pdf
The RS225 is an excellent driver, BUT, for the range needed in the Orion, i.e. 125hz-1.5k, the SEAS will be the better choice IMHO. The cost is $65, so not much more than the RS225. Some more info http://206.13.113.199/ncdiyaudio/mar...fer%20test.htm
The RS250 proto is the RS225 (well, mostly )
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Old 27th June 2005, 08:30 PM   #6
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I should have thought of using other SEAS drivers too - maybe closer to the sound of the Orions. Going one step "down" from the Excel line would probably result in still excellent sound quality - SEAS doesn't build any "bad" drivers. Maybe the poly/paper drivers are easier to X-over/equalize than the magnesium?

P.S. - doesn't SEAS have two Excel tweeters? One is of course the Millenium, but there is another less costly one in the same line. Doesn anybody have experience with this? (Not hijacking the thread - this could be another alternative for the Orion clone.)
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Old 27th June 2005, 09:26 PM   #7
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i think seas has six excel tweeters, the milennium and one half the price thats been around a while, and 4 new ones..
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Old 27th June 2005, 10:05 PM   #8
NH7RO is offline NH7RO  United States
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Hi, Chaucer (et al); I'm building some quasi-Orion clones similar to Steve Dodds's (username here: sfdoddsy) BOB 5 dipoles. But I'm using the new TC Sounds TC2+ incredible woofers in big birch plywood H frames with Seas Excel/Millenium MTM Corian baffles which will sit atop them*. (*or be suspended above them if vibrations are a problem).
Anyway, my point here is that, although these 10 drivers alone cost me upwards of $1650, you might want to consider using this combo instead as I have a good hunch they'd be mighty hard to improve upon. Quality only hurt$ once!
I've already built the woofers which I'm using with an old Sumo active subwoofer crossover and some Nakamichi 200 watt amps in my current Dynaudio 2 way + TC subs setup; they are nothing short of fantastic! I'm almost finished building the Sandstone-colored Corian baffles and should have the whole system up and running reasonably soon. I will post my results with photos when I do (I've been slowly working on this for nearly two years---at last I'm seeing light at the end of the tunnel!). Btw, Steve uses the same XF25 receiver and dcx2496 with his dipoles and he says it works great, too---so you needn't go out and buy more amps or crossovers, only the drivers and a lot of mdf if you decided to give the Seas/TC2s a try. I suggest you search and check out Steve's postings/web site as well as the many rave reviews of the TC2+ woofers; you'll be inspired as I was for sure. You should be able to locate them easily by searching "Bob 5" (and "arvo part dipoles" for links to the woofer reviews)... Let me know if you need further info as I can dig up some urls that are not handy to me at the moment. Good luck with your project and deciding which dipole path to choose---it will be a fun journey! Jeff
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Old 28th June 2005, 01:33 AM   #10
Chaucer is offline Chaucer  United States
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Wow, thanks for all the info so far, guys!

NH7RO, if you don't mind taking a few minutes and finding those links that would be great!

Also, I have a pair of decent line arrays that are in a ported box and was thinking of maybe making a pair of open baffle line arrays, incorporating an infinite baffle subwoofer for low-end duties. Any thoughts to something like this?
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