Manger

[jzagaja]

In my opinion holoprofile phase-plug and/or rear MSW works very well. Here's a picture of Mr Manger set-up - only front MSW and rear Sidekick is working with lenses. Virtually everywhere sound perspective is stable and precise.

[cocolino]

originally posted by phase_accurate
One of the German forum members once suggested that the MSW could/should be used together with a rear-firing tweeter in order to achieve better polar response.

I guess that was me:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...7590#post57590

originally posted by phase_accurate
I once tried it earlier this year by placing a pair of two-way boxes - aimed at the back wall - on the Manger boxes. I ran them with disconnected woofers. The result was quite astounding. Imaging was possible within a larger sweetspot than usual (remeber that Mangers are usually best suited for selfish listeners). But it was definitely less focused. And the sound was overly bright as well. But the experiment told me that the idea is well worth trying.

Adding a rear tweeter should not impact on focus when xover slope and level is properly adjusted.
When sound was overly bright when You tried a rear firing tweeter, I`d say the rear tweeter was too loud or crossed too low.

The rear tweeter should just add a little bit of more dispersion and You should not be able to obviously detect that there is an additional tweeter at all - unless You switch it off.

originally posted by phase_accurate
So I recently made a second attempt by using two NOS D-260 (Dynaudio) that I have in stock. I crossed them quite low at 1.2 kHz with a first order crossover followed by a resistive divider. The current divider has a damping of 10 dB approx.

I believe 1.2 kHz is crossed way too low.
Depending on where and how You mounted this 1.2kHz crossed tweeter on the backside of the enclosure it`s possible that lower frequencies of that range of use bend around the enclosure and mess up with the direct radiated sound from the Manger.
I would not cross lower than about >3.5kHz to 5kHz, which is where begins the "problem" range of the Manger in regard
to high frequency dispersion and what would more likely prevent the rear tweeter from interfering with direct radiated sound from the front baffle.
Crossover point also depends on the slope of the crossover, position of the speakers in the room, how far they are away from the rear wall and the reflective properties of this rear wall.

The rear tweeter has also to be padded down several db`s depending of what I said before.
10dB attenuation seems a little high to me though.
I`d try to cross higher and therefore to attenuate the tweeter somewhat less.

By all means experimentation is required.
Therefore once I made a small crossover for those smallish Audax 10mm supertweeters (not for the Manger but another project), with a second order HP where the xover frequency as well as level is adjustable through rotary switches.
With an additional switch the tweeter can be switched off completely.
With such an experimental xover, settings can be changed quickly and You get a good feel what would be a suitable adjustment instantly .

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attac...mp=1040402621&

[tinitus]

I thought the rear tweeter should only work above 10khz ?? ... ouch I forgot about dipole design

I may think that this manger could be difficult to cross "low" at all ... might work best with xo around 7khz ???

[phase_accurate]

Hi Christoph

Yes it was your idea (2nd post on this thread !). And sorry for calling a Bavarian German !
I am aware that the first try was with too much tweeter level. I just used what I had on hand for a quick, dirty and informal test.

The one I have at the moment is still a quick and informal test. I will have a look a the polar diagramm of the MSW in order to see what crossover frequency would be best suited.

In practice I think it would still have to be adjustable since this trick might be heavily room dependant. I think that I have enough tweeter level at the moment with this -10 dB (keep in mind that a D260 has much better efficiency than an MSW).

But the results look definitely promising. It would even be cheaper, more flexible and more aestetically pleasing than the other proposed solutions

Regards

Charles

[el`Ol]

It has been suggested (by people who didn´t try) to cross the Manger higher than usual. This sounds very reasonable, since music has most of its energy around 300Hz. I have only heard Manger sats with Klipschorn subs crossed low, which worked. Some people (don´t know whether they have tested many) say, finding a good bass partner for the Manger is hard. Is this just a fairy tale? And will it become even harder with higher x-over? What properties must a bass driver have in order to work with the Manger crossed high? Would similar specs as a Manger (extremely low Mms, extremely low voice coil inductance) be an advantage?