Yeah, I should have elaborated more in my earlier post. Before I got that big screen tv I had a regular CRT 29 incher. I also experimented with a 13" model to see how close I could come to the speakers. It was about 6 inches on the woofer side and 3 inches on the tweeter side. I also bought a bunch of bucking magnets in case it didn't work but they were'nt needed.
The speakers were also spaced out 6 foot apart for a stereo image and the CRT was only 2 1/2 foot wide. So that left a gap of 1 3/4 foot on each side.
Also the magnets on the 5 1/4" woofers are a lot larger and stronger then the NSB's. The Planars had no effect on the 13" TV, only if I moved them in a circular motion edge wise near the edge of the crt did it have any effect.
I was also worried about that big screen tv being affected by the speakers butted up next to it.
I figured since it was under warranty it wouldn't hurt to try.
The speakers were also spaced out 6 foot apart for a stereo image and the CRT was only 2 1/2 foot wide. So that left a gap of 1 3/4 foot on each side.
Also the magnets on the 5 1/4" woofers are a lot larger and stronger then the NSB's. The Planars had no effect on the 13" TV, only if I moved them in a circular motion edge wise near the edge of the crt did it have any effect.
I was also worried about that big screen tv being affected by the speakers butted up next to it.
I figured since it was under warranty it wouldn't hurt to try.
Ive seen this bullet tweeter suggested in other NSB line threads as it has wide dispersion.
The Onkyo tweeters do have an attractive price and can be mounted ffairly tightly, I think its worth consideration.
The Onkyo tweeters do have an attractive price and can be mounted ffairly tightly, I think its worth consideration.
thylantyr said:PT2 = 6.5"
6 PT2 = 39" line
10 NSB = 40" line
Would match well.
Then you have to wonder, what if you make a bigger one with
eight PT2 and 14-16 NSB, the cost is minimal and the tower looks
meaner
Part of audio design involves the Jedi Mind tricks where you build
something bigger than normal and people 'ooh and awe' at the
loudspeaker assuming it sounds good without even listening to it.
I've had people come over and freak out on the 90" towers
and they make the 'wow' comments and I haven't even turned on
the speaker yet.
/joke
Perception of sound quality = 50% design, 50% mind tricks.
/hehe
My point though was given the seating height 6 PT2 is plenty. In that situation it is still a good idea to go with at least 16 NSB in order to take advantage of floor/ceiling reflections in order to make the <3000Hz array height at least 70% of the ceiling height. This allows the effective array height to be about 3 times the actual height for purposes of determining the near field to far field transition. In the case of 16 NSB that is 64" or effectively 192" (~5m) which would put the nearfield to farfield at 100Hz at 5m.
Reading the white paper... http://www.audiodiycentral.com/resource/pdf/nflawp.pdf
I am curious whether your array models with the tweeter array output somewhat higher than the woofer array output, yet sounds very good that way? The reason is the white paper suggests that the planar tweeters, not having a lot of vertical dispersion, may not reinforce each other as much as the woofers, if at all.
Oh and another thought for the OP. The dayton NEO tweeter 275-030 at $4.10 in quantity. 4 cover about the same area as a single PT2. So, $16.10 per 6.5" vs $25. So, 24 would be about $100. Bringing the tweeter line for 7 speakers to $700 from your original $1750.
As it is right now I think I'm leaning towards using a single efficient tweeter in the middle of the array, something like the
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...tnumber=272-115.
which according to johninCR is a good sounding tweeter after some tweaks.
Tweaker - is the suggested Selenium tweeter recommended as a line of tweeters or as a single one? Do you have a link to the thread that discusses this?
Also there are a lot of onkyo buyout tweeters at partsexpress, which one is mostly suitable?
dastardly - For the issue of 4 neo against one PT2, would they be equivalent in soundquality and effectivness in the line?
Sorry for all the newbie questions. I think I will order a small amount of NSB drivers and tweeters to check out which ones sound best (only problem is I won't know what good sound is supposed to be
Thanks again and keep it coming.
Cheers,
exipnos
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...tnumber=272-115.
which according to johninCR is a good sounding tweeter after some tweaks.
Tweaker - is the suggested Selenium tweeter recommended as a line of tweeters or as a single one? Do you have a link to the thread that discusses this?
Also there are a lot of onkyo buyout tweeters at partsexpress, which one is mostly suitable?
dastardly - For the issue of 4 neo against one PT2, would they be equivalent in soundquality and effectivness in the line?
Sorry for all the newbie questions. I think I will order a small amount of NSB drivers and tweeters to check out which ones sound best (only problem is I won't know what good sound is supposed to be
Thanks again and keep it coming.
Cheers,
exipnos
exipnos said:As it is right now I think I'm leaning towards using a single efficient tweeter in the middle of the array, something like the
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...tnumber=272-115.
which according to johninCR is a good sounding tweeter after some tweaks.
Tweaker - is the suggested Selenium tweeter recommended as a line of tweeters or as a single one? Do you have a link to the thread that discusses this?
Also there are a lot of onkyo buyout tweeters at partsexpress, which one is mostly suitable?
dastardly - For the issue of 4 neo against one PT2, would they be equivalent in soundquality and effectivness in the line?
Sorry for all the newbie questions. I think I will order a small amount of NSB drivers and tweeters to check out which ones sound best (only problem is I won't know what good sound is supposed to be
Thanks again and keep it coming.
Cheers,
exipnos
I actually have no idea. I have a design in the back of my head using the neo's but i won' t be able to try it until my dedicated room gets built which is quite a while off.
That selenium super tweeter might work with it's 40degree vertical dispersion. I've never heard one. The Pyle I know is tweakable to good sound and the metal horn is just held on with screws, so it would be fairly easy to make and attach some wooden horn lenses that could work even better. I've just been satisfied with the simple 2 minute tweak which to me makes a staggering difference. Without the foam rubber inserted it's just your typical ear bleedingly harsh bullet tweeter, but afterward I can't tell the difference between the Pyle and the modded Eminence APT compression driver used by Adire in their HE kits. Of course it's not perfect and some day I want to do some ribbon lines, but for $20 you're not going to beat it. Plus it's the only reasonably priced good sounding tweeter I've found that will keep up with an array at a 3-5m listening distance. The horn and bullet shape give it really nice dispersion, so the sound is well balanced between on axis & up to 45 degrees or so off axis and that's very important for your application because you don't want a beaming tweeter.
I'd say order one of those seleniums and one of the pyles when you order your other test drivers and decide for yourself what you like best since that's what's really most important anyway. Your guest won't know the difference. They think run of the mill storebought or Bose sound good and you'll be blowing that away.
Regarding top and bottom or left and right speakers sharing the mono center channel speaker: I've experimented with it and never got something I liked. First, there is comb filtering at the wavelength and multiple thereof based on the distance between the two. Plus the dialogue all comes from the center of the screen, but with a phantom center everything is well placed with what you see. I have yet to discover any need for a center channel unless it's a very large theatre or your mains have to go in the corners. I really believe it's something the equipment makers dreamed up to force everyone to purchase a new system.
I'd say order one of those seleniums and one of the pyles when you order your other test drivers and decide for yourself what you like best since that's what's really most important anyway. Your guest won't know the difference. They think run of the mill storebought or Bose sound good and you'll be blowing that away.
Regarding top and bottom or left and right speakers sharing the mono center channel speaker: I've experimented with it and never got something I liked. First, there is comb filtering at the wavelength and multiple thereof based on the distance between the two. Plus the dialogue all comes from the center of the screen, but with a phantom center everything is well placed with what you see. I have yet to discover any need for a center channel unless it's a very large theatre or your mains have to go in the corners. I really believe it's something the equipment makers dreamed up to force everyone to purchase a new system.
I am curious whether your array models with the tweeter array output somewhat higher than the woofer array output, yet sounds very good that way? The reason is the white paper suggests that the planar tweeters, not having a lot of vertical dispersion, may not reinforce each other as much as the woofers, if at all.
The 16 NSB's are wired for 2 ohm.
The 10 PT2's are wired for 0.8 ohm.
They match pretty good. I think for best SQ I turn the level down
a click on the active crossover because the NSB's can still over power the tweeters but it's very close to perfect.
0.8 ohms? Sure my amp can drive it with ease. Most people don't
understand the 'ohms' game and amplifiers. Even though my amp is not rated for less than 4 ohms per channel, driving 0.8 ohms is
easy because;
a. tweeters don't consume alot of power. Lets say each PT2 consumes 10 watts, that is 100 watts I'm pulling from an Adcom 555 which is cake.
b. my amp is dumb, it has no protection circuit to flag an impedance error to turn off the amp in the presence of an abnormal load. This is where dumb amps are good vs. smart ones.
My point though was given the seating height 6 PT2 is plenty. In that situation it is still a good idea to go with at least 16 NSB
The only issue I see here is the NSB array has the potential to drown out 6 PT2's and you will have to match sensitivity or adjust levels with an active setup. It's a bummer to have to turn
down the midrange array as not to drown out the smaller tweeter array -- then you have to wonder why have the big midrange array if you can't exploit it's power. /hehe
Oh and another thought for the OP. The dayton NEO tweeter 275-030 at $4.10 in quantity. 4 cover about the same area as a single PT2. So, $16.10 per 6.5" vs $25. So, 24 would be about $100. Bringing the tweeter line for 7 speakers to $700 from your original $1750.
The NEO is a good choice for an array and for $4 why not. But the real question should be.. Do I like the sound of arrayed domes or arrayed planars? You will get two different sonic characters.
Buy 1 planar and some NEOs for testing.
The 16 NSB's are wired for 2 ohm.
The 10 PT2's are wired for 0.8 ohm.
They match pretty good. I think for best SQ I turn the level down
a click on the active crossover because the NSB's can still over power the tweeters but it's very close to perfect.
0.8 ohms? Sure my amp can drive it with ease. Most people don't
understand the 'ohms' game and amplifiers. Even though my amp is not rated for less than 4 ohms per channel, driving 0.8 ohms is
easy because;
a. tweeters don't consume alot of power. Lets say each PT2 consumes 10 watts, that is 100 watts I'm pulling from an Adcom 555 which is cake.
b. my amp is dumb, it has no protection circuit to flag an impedance error to turn off the amp in the presence of an abnormal load. This is where dumb amps are good vs. smart ones.
My point though was given the seating height 6 PT2 is plenty. In that situation it is still a good idea to go with at least 16 NSB
The only issue I see here is the NSB array has the potential to drown out 6 PT2's and you will have to match sensitivity or adjust levels with an active setup. It's a bummer to have to turn
down the midrange array as not to drown out the smaller tweeter array -- then you have to wonder why have the big midrange array if you can't exploit it's power. /hehe
Oh and another thought for the OP. The dayton NEO tweeter 275-030 at $4.10 in quantity. 4 cover about the same area as a single PT2. So, $16.10 per 6.5" vs $25. So, 24 would be about $100. Bringing the tweeter line for 7 speakers to $700 from your original $1750.
The NEO is a good choice for an array and for $4 why not. But the real question should be.. Do I like the sound of arrayed domes or arrayed planars? You will get two different sonic characters.
Buy 1 planar and some NEOs for testing.
re: NSB and NEO
Fazorcats NSB + Neo
http://img204.imageshack.us/gal.php?a=1
I believe he built the NSB array minus tweeters and the sound suffered so he added the NEO's to the side to try out.
Well the tweeters are all wired and finished. I like how they sound. Not sure how much of a difference from 8 tweeters to 18 made, but I think I can hear a little bit of a change. The sweet spot is bigger, so that is cool. Overall, I am totally satisfied with these towers, and am very glad I did this project. Thank you all who helped me with my questions.
Maybe I'll add a grill in the future or paint them or something to make them look professional, but not sure when or if i'll do that.
http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/showthread.php?t=213730&page=8&pp=15
Fazorcats NSB + Neo
http://img204.imageshack.us/gal.php?a=1
I believe he built the NSB array minus tweeters and the sound suffered so he added the NEO's to the side to try out.
Well the tweeters are all wired and finished. I like how they sound. Not sure how much of a difference from 8 tweeters to 18 made, but I think I can hear a little bit of a change. The sweet spot is bigger, so that is cool. Overall, I am totally satisfied with these towers, and am very glad I did this project. Thank you all who helped me with my questions.
Maybe I'll add a grill in the future or paint them or something to make them look professional, but not sure when or if i'll do that.
http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/showthread.php?t=213730&page=8&pp=15
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