Hi one and all.
I'm looking for a pair of floorstanding speakers that are to be used with various Tube-amp setups so a sensitivity above 90db is wanted.
parameters:
-A price around 350$ (preferably below) excluding cabinet for the pair.
-Floorstanding
->90dB
-No electrostats.
-No bulky cabinets, (30x30x120cm approx)
Since I lack the knowlage to design crossovers and cabinets building instructions are a must. And ofcourse best possible clarity (instrument separation, atmosphere?).
Any suggestions good people?
I'm looking for a pair of floorstanding speakers that are to be used with various Tube-amp setups so a sensitivity above 90db is wanted.
parameters:
-A price around 350$ (preferably below) excluding cabinet for the pair.
-Floorstanding
->90dB
-No electrostats.
-No bulky cabinets, (30x30x120cm approx)
Since I lack the knowlage to design crossovers and cabinets building instructions are a must. And ofcourse best possible clarity (instrument separation, atmosphere?).
Any suggestions good people?
Buschhorns! (the Mk2 version):
http://www.geocities.com/northbirdten/buschhorn_mkii.htm
The sensitivity is around 93dB, I seem to remember.
If you have $350 to spend you can fit the Fostex FE108EZs instead of cheaper drivers.
http://www.geocities.com/northbirdten/buschhorn_mkii.htm
The sensitivity is around 93dB, I seem to remember.
If you have $350 to spend you can fit the Fostex FE108EZs instead of cheaper drivers.
The Buschhorn link is n.a. for me just now.
If you don’t want the building complexity of most horns, a Fostex 206E (fullranger = no crossover, 96 db): not sure of their min Hz.
You may want to add an active sub (eg with a gainclone), Peerless XLS 12 (90 db) or other to make the bottom end really good.
If you don’t want the building complexity of most horns, a Fostex 206E (fullranger = no crossover, 96 db): not sure of their min Hz.
You may want to add an active sub (eg with a gainclone), Peerless XLS 12 (90 db) or other to make the bottom end really good.
There's this one: http://home.nyc.rr.com/tubeaudio/Page3.htm
Or this one: http://hometown.aol.de/hphinder/homepage/
Yes it involves a bit of woodwork, though nothing really complex.
Or this one: http://hometown.aol.de/hphinder/homepage/
Yes it involves a bit of woodwork, though nothing really complex.
Few conventional mid-bass drivers are 93 db.
PHL who are well regarded, make an extensive range, inc some that don’t need a sub eg 1220/ 1230, which are 93 db.
www.phlaudio.com/ click on - Products, 6.5”, Bass
This avoids needing say two 87 db mid-bass drivers, which causes lobing problems).
Zalytron have some PHLs on sale at present.
To find > 93 db, choose from those coloured pinkish here:
http://ldsg.snippets.org/sect-7-tweets.php3#TWEETS-1
Seas 27TFF or Morel MDT37 would be good for $.
Hope this helps.
Got to go
PHL who are well regarded, make an extensive range, inc some that don’t need a sub eg 1220/ 1230, which are 93 db.
www.phlaudio.com/ click on - Products, 6.5”, Bass
This avoids needing say two 87 db mid-bass drivers, which causes lobing problems).
Zalytron have some PHLs on sale at present.
To find > 93 db, choose from those coloured pinkish here:
http://ldsg.snippets.org/sect-7-tweets.php3#TWEETS-1
Seas 27TFF or Morel MDT37 would be good for $.
Hope this helps.
Got to go
Some people say the Buschhorn sounds better than the Fostex recommended enclosures, others say they are very similar. I've never heard the Fostex enclosures but the Buschhorn is definitley a more elegant looking speaker, and simpler to build as you point out. BTW, the Buschhorn works well with a number of Fostex drivers and can be tweaked to optimize it with whichever driver you choose. I mentioned the FE108EZ because it is supposed to give the best results overall, and would fill your budget.
There is a UK site that sells most of the Fostex range, and their prices compare well to Madisound's (once you add postage): https://secure.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/acatalog/
There is a UK site that sells most of the Fostex range, and their prices compare well to Madisound's (once you add postage): https://secure.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/acatalog/
Hi,
I´d use FE166/7E or FE206/7E and eventually a supertweeter (that´d be also in your budget).
You can put them in ML-TL´s or horns and so floorstanders.
There are loads of designs out there:
http://www.quarter-wave.com/
http://geocities.com/rbrines1/
(FT1600)
Also check out the recommended enclosures given in the datasheets by Fostex.
greets from a happy owner of a FE167E
I´d use FE166/7E or FE206/7E and eventually a supertweeter (that´d be also in your budget).
You can put them in ML-TL´s or horns and so floorstanders.
There are loads of designs out there:
http://www.quarter-wave.com/
http://geocities.com/rbrines1/
(FT1600)
Also check out the recommended enclosures given in the datasheets by Fostex.
greets from a happy owner of a FE167E
How about a Fostex, crossed at about 100 Hz to a “pro” 10 inch driver like an Eminence Delta 10 or Kappa Pro www.loudspeakersplus.com/html/delta10.html or www.usspeaker.com/KAPPAPRO-10-1.htm or Fane 10MB www.loudspeakersplus.com/html/crescendo.html
These three are all 96-99 db to match the FE207.
Both brands (now) have good reputations, pick the driver with best specs for your application, probably lowest Fs. P.Audio is an equally good brand, though I don’t know their models as well.
Any of these I think would give much better bass than horn loading a Fostex.
These three are all 96-99 db to match the FE207.
Both brands (now) have good reputations, pick the driver with best specs for your application, probably lowest Fs. P.Audio is an equally good brand, though I don’t know their models as well.
Any of these I think would give much better bass than horn loading a Fostex.
The thing is (as i wrote) that i don't know the first thing about designing cabinets an such, build them? Yes, Design? No 
So what I need is something that has all this available from the start.
How about a FE167 with the recommended standard bass reflex enclosure? But how does fullrange bookshelf work without sub-support?
So what I need is something that has all this available from the start.
How about a FE167 with the recommended standard bass reflex enclosure? But how does fullrange bookshelf work without sub-support?
To easily check out most of the good high efficiency woofer options, 10" or other: www.usspeaker.com/homepage.htm & select the size you want; drill down for specs.
There's a lot there
There's a lot there
I think the most before rolloff you’ll get from a FE207 in a bass reflex is about 70-80 Hz. A FE167 won’t go as low. Low Xmax drivers.
I understand your point about designing cabinets. But for vented and esp. for sealed, it’s not much more than playing around with Unibox. You can get more than enough help here.
If you put in a bit more design effort, there is more challenge, more learning, and you can choose something that better fits your personal needs.
In summary more reward. Otherwise you have less options.
What’s trickier is crossover design, but again you can get more than enough help here.
BTW if you add a bass below a Fostex, I’d go for the 166/167.
Cheers
I understand your point about designing cabinets. But for vented and esp. for sealed, it’s not much more than playing around with Unibox. You can get more than enough help here.
If you put in a bit more design effort, there is more challenge, more learning, and you can choose something that better fits your personal needs.
In summary more reward. Otherwise you have less options.
What’s trickier is crossover design, but again you can get more than enough help here.
BTW if you add a bass below a Fostex, I’d go for the 166/167.
Cheers
I get your point about the joy of learning. However, the thing i like is valveamps, the speakers are just something i need to use these amps.
Well, I've got some reading to do and the first things on the list is to start/finish my pre-amp and hypex poweramps..
Then we can start with valves and speakers, a subwoofer is not an option as long as i live in an appartment thou. Now it's all about space...
Edit
Thanks for the pointers
Well, I've got some reading to do and the first things on the list is to start/finish my pre-amp and hypex poweramps..
Then we can start with valves and speakers, a subwoofer is not an option as long as i live in an appartment thou. Now it's all about space...
Edit
Thanks for the pointers
I understand a sub is not on the agenda.
Yes a lot to this hobby. You apparently place the most importance on the amp – not my personal view, but fair enough.
A 97 db combo like a Fostex/ pro bass should sound pretty damn good, and perfect for valve amps in all but the largest of rooms. I only thought of such a combo tonight (if I knew about such drivers two years ago & thought of it earlier, I would have done it myself!)
Cheers
Yes a lot to this hobby. You apparently place the most importance on the amp – not my personal view, but fair enough.
A 97 db combo like a Fostex/ pro bass should sound pretty damn good, and perfect for valve amps in all but the largest of rooms. I only thought of such a combo tonight (if I knew about such drivers two years ago & thought of it earlier, I would have done it myself!)
Cheers
30x30x120, if you can extend the width to accomodate a 12" or 15" MID-Bass in an active setup you'd be in for quite a surprize if you can find a good matching horn tweeter (part of the problem). Behringer DCX is key to this and a couple of places have them going for rather cheap. I wouldn't be happy with small valve amps driving a ~90dB efficient midrange/wideband speaker (sorry, but the Bushhorn simply cannot be considdered fullrange for most music). Just build a good cabinett (much simpler than a horn) and you'll have some bass too (often missing from HE setups and excused away with the myth called speed)
I personally use the P.Audio SN-15MB which is very clean up to about 1.4kHz and quite tolerable even up to about 2kHz and beyond. A no of 5-6% (around 100dB@1W), a 40-45Hz cab tuning and a Behringer Ultradrive and you're set. Might be a little more that you've budgeted for, but well worth it in the end, especially when combined with a simple measurement setup and if you look at the future flexibility of such a setup and the ability to harness multiple amps if you have more that two chanels available. EQ is in there too.
A 12"/10" Mid-Bass is quite sufficient for most people and simplifies tweeter choice, but likely not to have much bass or efficiency (good ole' Iron Law)
Regards
Martin
I personally use the P.Audio SN-15MB which is very clean up to about 1.4kHz and quite tolerable even up to about 2kHz and beyond. A no of 5-6% (around 100dB@1W), a 40-45Hz cab tuning and a Behringer Ultradrive and you're set. Might be a little more that you've budgeted for, but well worth it in the end, especially when combined with a simple measurement setup and if you look at the future flexibility of such a setup and the ability to harness multiple amps if you have more that two chanels available. EQ is in there too.
A 12"/10" Mid-Bass is quite sufficient for most people and simplifies tweeter choice, but likely not to have much bass or efficiency (good ole' Iron Law)
Regards
Martin
So, are you saying that it's a better idé to build a pair of regular 2-way floorstanders with the same sensitivity instead of fullrange?In that case it's no problem since I know of an ultracheap floorstander around 90db with a real good sound (215$+cabinet).
These were my original plan but somehow i got sidetracked
Oh, now i get it... 90db is to low...
Anyway, the possible amps will probaly have atleast around 10W/channel. The primary project around 18W.
Which is about right for a 97-100dB speaker IME if you want any hint of real dynamics. If you only use it for background listening or in a small room though, it'd probably be alright (assuming reasonable output impedance). Try it out with a 20W amp and decide for yourself how much output you realistically need.
If you can get hold of some Tannoy co-axes you'd be sorted too.
If you can get hold of some Tannoy co-axes you'd be sorted too.
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