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Old 22nd April 2005, 09:48 PM   #21
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I haven’t modelled it, but the SN-15MB (Fs 47 Hz) has a Vas of 177 litres, it may need a big box.

The SN-12 MB (Fs 50 Hz) has a Vas of only 95 litres, sensitivity still 98 db, may be better suited.
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Old 22nd April 2005, 10:42 PM   #22
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Box size is part of the deal with efficiency and a slighly shelved alignment often fits in well with room behaviour below 100Hz (though not always). EQ and positioning are your friends (I use two P.Audio C18-650ELs in a 175L ported boxes for sub-duty, generally tuned to 23Hz though 40Hz if I unplug two of my four ports). A floorstander 40x30x120 internal gives you 144l, make that 130-odd allowing for some bracing, driver and port volume.

That Beyma is supposedly a good option (not heard it though) and I have had reasonably good experiences with the P.Audio 1.75" diaphragm 1" exit compression drivers (tip: PH-220 which is an RCF H100 clone, works a charm and would be a perfect playing partner for a 8" or 10"). The BM-D450 has a diaphragm-related ringing at 10kHz but is fairly well behaved otherwise.

My current project is a matching Oblate Spheroidal Waveguide for the 15" ... or the 12" (not quite decided yet, but thinking of going for the 15")

The Winner 12S I have in 65l ported enclosures, currently tuned 55-60Hz (I can measure it if you want) and it performs reasonably well up to almost 2kHz where cone resonance starts to come in (reasonably damped though). Also has an octagonal alu basket for that PHL/PD look (though I am shocked at the affordability of the PHL drivers mentioned earlier in the thread)

The 15s are actually in Speakerplans.com X15s cabs atm with two more awaiting hi-fi or stage-monitor use (with a larger-format compression driver). BMD-450 on PH-220 (only recently passive x-over at 1.9kHz due to high power use) These are PA type cabs and work well.

Regards

Martin
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Old 22nd April 2005, 11:45 PM   #23
Bricolo is offline Bricolo  France
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I wonder how such big drivers can be so efficient.

Since they are really large drivers for midranges or even midbasses, can't the efficiency be increased because they are beaming like a flashlight? (so, something like a horn: giving all the power into a specific angle)
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Old 23rd April 2005, 12:44 AM   #24
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A 15" has (roughly) -6dB points

500Hz -> 180deg
1kHz -> 90 degrees

I view this as a definite advantage as in the lower-midrange and above early reflections are significantly reduced.

Good night

Martin
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Old 23rd April 2005, 01:48 AM   #25
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> I am shocked at the affordability of the PHL drivers mentioned earlier in the thread

I was too when I saw them!


If you stick with 30x30x120, internally 90 litres odd, I’d go FE 166/167 and Eminence Kappa Pro 10 or SN-12 MB.

But yes increase width 10 cm and a SN-15MB is better.

How much are P.Audio PH-220 & BM-D450?
With the Behringer (which exact model, I was thinking of CX-2400) are we blowing the budget?


Playing with a CX-2400, I’d try crossover points between 150 – 1200 Hz, by my hunch is 300 – 500 Hz may be best, rather than push a big midbass high, to moderate beaming and more importantly gain midrange detail.
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Old 23rd April 2005, 02:47 AM   #26
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Default (This project really interests me!)

Other mid bass options (from the pinkish rows here):
http://ldsg.snippets.org/sect-7-woofs.php3#WOOF-12-

Eminence Beta 8 & 10, Beta 12LT; Stryke SAE-1204 (less efficient, more extension).

Alas the Lambdas were too dear, and now only a few models are available from Stryke.

Oh, some find the Fostex a little rough up high. Can you try before you buy?
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Old 23rd April 2005, 03:29 PM   #27
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You should get some good ideas at the real home of this thread - High Efficiency Speakers

www.audioasylum.com/forums/hug/bbs.html

Keep us posted
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Old 23rd April 2005, 07:54 PM   #28
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I don't think those Emminence are really good runners compared to other HE speakers out there. BM-D450 and PH-220 are about the bottom of what I'd consider, though for home use I'd probably look for something a little nicer. BMS are cheap as chips in the states, but that's not the case in finland methinks. For impressing friends and the like though, that combo is just fine!

Also after you have used a controller like the DCX you will understand why a "normal" active crossover doesn't cut it anymore. You just loose so much by going to old route for not much less expense (especially when seen i.t.o total cost).
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Old 24th April 2005, 12:41 AM   #29
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> I don't think those Emminence are really good runners compared to other HE speakers out there.

I wonder how at the low price of Eminence how good they are, but I’ve read a number of good reports on them at the High Efficiency Speakers forum and on web pages. From here http://ldsg.snippets.org/vendors/eminence.php3
the Beta 12LT could be the choice for this kmj.
I think they’d be fine, especially if you crossed them low, eg at 250 Hz (to the Fostex).

You’re quite right about the DCX, if you want to go active and spend that little more.

I have no idea of pricing in Sweden, but for “350$ (preferably below)” it may be either Eminence (driven by Hypex, for its control, rather than its power) & DCX, or P.Audio & passive.

Though if you’re going active & Hypex, the Peerless XLS 12 could be the way to go. DST say that with a 4th order, they can be crossed at up to 280 Hz.

What are you thinking kmj?
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Old 24th April 2005, 12:53 AM   #30
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purevox uses Eminence with TAD TD-4001s! If he could afford TADs he could have afforded something dearer than Eminence . .

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...ht=#post608643
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