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Old 30th March 2005, 12:48 PM   #1
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Default To make work/ better this hybrid sound?

To make work/ better this hybrid sound?

I was just about to go down the serious pro-driver dipole route. Last Christmas hearing some horns with effortless dynamics, I’m now about to make my first foray into a horn system.

Due to already owning &/ or hearing a number of good drivers, the project has evolved into:
< 240 Hz: Peerless XLSs (already had these) in Linkwitz H frame dipoles, probably driven by 160 w Hypex Modules.
(If needed two H frames a side)

240 – c. 1000 Hz: JBL 2202Hs: 12” 100 dB in CLS 180 Hz flares (80 * 40). (Already have the drivers & flares). Driven by either tubes (300B?) or Mini Alephs (10 w)?

c. 1000 – c. 3000 Hz: PHL 1060s: 6.5” 100 dB, in either sealed boxes or home made 80 * 40 constant directivity flares.
> c. 3000 Hz: Aurum Cantus G1s: 100 dB ribbons. (Already had these) May be able to do a waveguide on these(?).

The perfect upper range choice may appear to be a TAD TD2001 , but eg Stella and Magnetar prefer the ESg1.

A horn buff mate (who hasn’t heard a hybrid like this ~ who has?) thinks it must be all horn, biggest concern being the different pattern of the ribbon. Listening distance will be c. 4.5m (15 feet), which will reduce the effect of the beaming.

I’m going to use both Hornresp & SoundEasy to help.

XOs to be determined, but most likely:
XLS – JBL & JBL – PHL: active; and PHL – ribbons passive.

That would lend it to giving the last two drivers either a more powerful but tubey sounding SS amp (eg I have some high bias Musical Fidelity 50 w monoblocks), or say a PP EL34. I know opinions differ on the need to use the same amp across the range.

I’m open to class A (like the about close Pass Labs forum offer), eg a mini Aleph on the JBLs (say 105 db in flares), and an Aleph 30 on the PHLs & ribbons?

Will it work? What’s wrong? How can it be better?

Thanks
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Old 30th March 2005, 01:32 PM   #2
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It may help:

mostly listen to (close miked, compressed) pop rock, but with an increasing proportion of world music (or other reasonably recorded material).

Cheers
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Old 30th March 2005, 09:36 PM   #3
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Unhappy Ping

Pinging any high efficiency or tube/ amp synergy clever folk– fdegrove, KYW, Stella, Jeff Mai, SY, etc etc- you know who you are

Comments from mere mortals welcome too!

(Despite any illusions to the contrary, I'm more in the latter category myself)
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Old 30th March 2005, 10:24 PM   #4
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I've done little with horns, but my first impression is that you'll have a problem mating a dipole woofer to a horn radiation pattern.
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Old 30th March 2005, 10:53 PM   #5
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Default Who knows about dispersion patterns?

Yes, different radiation patterns is maybe my biggest concern.

The dipoles may be 100*100 ?? (less than conventional boxes would be),
the horns 80*40,
the 6.5 inch PHLs (if sealed & higher powered amp) 90*90??, if in a CD can be 80*40,
the ribbon 150*30?

I’m not interested in stereo image – will this matter?

Cheers
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Old 30th March 2005, 10:58 PM   #6
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I'd be more worried about the discontinuity of the reverberant vs direct sound on either side of the crossover. I've been in the opposite pickle, trying to make omni bass drivers mate with dipole satellites. Never have been able to make them sing the same tune.
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Old 31st March 2005, 06:32 AM   #7
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Thanks SY

People’s sensitivity to this must vary.
John Hancock uses dipole bass below 300 Hz, and Unity Hons above. I think someone else does similar; and I once had dipole > 850? Hz, monopole below (in Apogee hybrid ribbons) without that problem (there were others).
(Presumably you had them close or time aligned in the XO) so the problem was the reverberant vs direct sound.


Any opinions or how to get most continuity of amps?

How about 845 SEs for both the JBLs, and the upper range.
I’m going to China next month, where ‘Yarland’ (made in Shanghai) 845 SEs can be had for very low prices, with probably average parts quality. Later could be upgraded as money permits.

But what safety precautions would be necessary with a low $ high volts (1100?) amp?

Cheers
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Old 31st March 2005, 11:27 AM   #8
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I find the Karlson Klam loaded with a good 15" woofer to 250 Hz, open baffle 10 to 1.3 khz, and the big heils 1.3k up with active 4th order crossovers as good as any horn system I've had in dynamics yet has better transient response, coherency, soundstaging, tone and room exceptance than a fully horn loaded system or hybrid. Plus it costs a heck of a lot less and is easier to to integrate.
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Old 31st March 2005, 11:39 AM   #9
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Magnetar

Thanks for coming in - three ways is simpler too.

What drivers are you using in the Karlson Klam (you’ve described the ;box; before), and esp. the open baffle 250 Hz to 1.3 khz??


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Old 31st March 2005, 10:24 PM   #10
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Originally posted by rick57
Magnetar

What drivers are you using in the Karlson Klam (you’ve described the ;box; before), and esp. the open baffle 250 Hz to 1.3 khz??


I'm torn between an old pair of Jensen 10" flexair alnico's and some custom field coil 10's with flexair surrounds and a double spider. The field coils are really sensitive but I'm having a problem putting more than 10-20 watts into them crossed over below 300 cycles. Seem to be too much trouble for a small gain in sensitivity -

The Klams currently have Altec 921's in them. The box(back chamber) is sealed and I'm using a 3rd order electronic high pass on them with the horns subs doing the deep bass duties 50 down. Same thing here - My custom 15" field coils sound a bit better (relaxed yet 'fast' to a certain point) but can't handle the heavy stuff like the Altecs. Seems the Altecs are much more practicle unless you are one of these guys that swears by 3 watt SET amps to drive the bass!

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