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Old 11th March 2006, 10:42 AM   #151
el`Ol is offline el`Ol  Germany
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The Ciare 65mm drivers look like Bose killers to me. Vas 0.5/0.7l sensitivity 88/90dB power handling 10W.

You find them in "Breitbandlautsprecher", "Übersichtstabelle" at
http://www.spectrumaudio.de
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Old 13th March 2006, 06:00 AM   #152
Bose(o) is offline Bose(o)  Canada
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I hate that article, there is a lot of contradiction which mainly stems from the author's lack of experience in the design of loudspeakers. Even if he was "bashing" some other company I'd still hate it.
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Old 13th March 2006, 09:25 AM   #153
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I completely agree with bose(o), this intellexual article is worth nothing

"Smaller subwoofers move faster and thus have tighter bass response for improved clarity and accuracy, but larger subwoofers can reproduce lower frequencies and at louder volumes"

"Do the math folks, this Bose system only produces 13,176 of the 19,980 Hertz in the audible sound spectrum. That's only ~66% of the actual recording being played back to you!"

no kidding, they move faster ... and somebody should teach him that you can't count hertz like apples as it is a logarithmic scale... anyway the full article, is written on a very agressive and pedantic tone ... the least you hope in theses cases is that the knowledge of the writer is up to his

as said before it is silly to consider using EXACTLY the same volume as bose. They are physical limitations, and my guess is that for this size you can't do anything more than marginally better, even with top of the notch drivers and design, and moreover, that would be stupid.

you can design "lifestyle" products with using 1 litres speakers instead of 0.4, people aren't THAT silly. moreover, you can use the improved sound quality as compared to bose as a marketing argument, if we are into this kind of debate ... still, they would be tiny speakers, and would aim the same target than BOSE does !

now here is how i would do it :

1. provided you want to save space and you want the better sound quality, the crossover choice is obvious, you want to go all active. It means that you can handle all the crossovers AND amps in a very small box. Also as you want lots of juice to power the subwoofer, you go using digital amps, that are proven good quality and dissipate little heat.

2. provided you want better cabinetry than bose, but you don't want to use MDF as it would bigger the sattelite too much, you could use satellites done out of aluminium, damped with a sort of bitumen. here you want to find the right compromise between thickness and damping.

3.here we comes to the choice of drivers. You want to find the 3" driver ( as it is i think the only size to consider, 2" is too small to fill enough mid bass, and 4" is too big provided you want to stay near the bose size) that is having the maximum excursion, with the maximum bandwith and least distortion, and a very low VAS. For that task, the Aurasound NS3-193-8A that zaph tested to have the best midbass distortion of a whole range of 3" drivers. It is having near full range operation also.
It is comfortable in a sealed box of 1 liter with a Q of 1. also you could put it in a .3 liter box and then use a linkwitz transform to get back his f3 to 100 hz and his Q to a reasonable value, but i personally think that it is a lot of efforts to spare 0.5 liters

4. Here we comes to the subwoofer, there you have a lot of possibilities. If you want small volume along with quality deep bass, you are gonna be annoyed by the vent in ported system, that will be either too small and then generate port noise, either too long for your box.
I would personnaly go for two Tangband W6-1139SG in a 5-8 liters sealed box, with a linkwitz transform aimed at 30hz and an 4th order highpass around 20hz. this way you have an F3 of around 35hz, and a subwoofer that is able to handle around 80w of power before going out of excursion, generating 104db/1meter... all this is theory of course. But if you go this way you want to have a very dead + stiff = heavy box.

this solution relies heavily on active equalisation. I would say , you could even add one of these small dayton tweeters on each satelites if you are not happy with high end, but then you would need an active crossover + amp more for each satellite.

In the end you have a very good system, very expensive on the electronic side, but i believe it is the only way to beat bose in theses ridiculous allowed spaces

but if you go the simple way, if you use 5 satelites of 1 liter,natural rolloff at 100hz, ported subwoofer with just one active filter doing the transition to the satellites ... 6 amps,and here you go
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Old 13th March 2006, 04:34 PM   #154
Bose(o) is offline Bose(o)  Canada
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I also invite you guys to "hit up" a store that carries the Bose so that you can fimiliarize yourself with the system. I'm not saying to 'listen' or to 'hear' it, just check it out. And, let's say we're trying to beat up on the BEST Bose Acoustimass system.

Anyway, the Bose subwoofer is NOT small. In fact, it is HUGE and weighs a tonne. I went on the Bose site to pick up the actual size of their best acoustimass' module.

"Acoustimass module • 16 1/3"H x 8 1/8"W x 29 1/8"D • (41.5 x 20.7 x 74 cm) • 45 lbs. (20.5 kg) " This is the AM16 which is 6.1 and the AM10 (5.1) is "Acoustimass module • 16 1/3"H x 8 1/8"W x 25 1/3"D • (41.5 x 20.7 x 64.3 cm) • 35 lbs. (15.9 kg)" Pretty much what I'm trying to say, is that almost ANY half decently sized woofer will meet the size guideline. One could design it to be thin like the Bose acoustimass module too and, this may make for a "sleeker" system.

I am quite interested in this project now and I'm thinking that I'll change up my current project. It's quite a challenge and that's exactly what I like!

Also, I have four Altec Lansing drivers that measure quite well in a small OB. I could consider using these.
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Old 14th March 2006, 02:10 AM   #155
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el`Ol, can you link me directly to the driver your speaking of? I've looked on that page under broadband loudspeakers and I cannot find a 65mm driver.
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Old 14th March 2006, 02:38 AM   #156
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Never mind, I Google'd it and found:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...iarePA065.html
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Old 14th March 2006, 08:27 AM   #157
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get this speaker in a .4 liter enclosure, with it's 1mm xmax and 154hz fs, and your gonna have a system as crappy as bose, no matter what you do...

it could be the new line of thinkin', "design a system as crappy as bose for more money"

anyway i already talked too much for too little return
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Old 14th March 2006, 11:10 AM   #158
Colin is offline Colin  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by synergy
just read the whole of this thread and unless i'm going blind i can't believe no-one's mentioned the Jordan JXR6
My thoughts exactly. I have a system running which is 2 litres per enclosure and seems to operate fine to 120Hz, with declining output from there to 80Hz. It should be possible to get the size down even further. Enclosure is a ceramic pot, which has a 70s feel to it. More so when the baffle gets the black leatherette treatment.

Colin
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Old 14th March 2006, 03:38 PM   #159
synergy is offline synergy  United Kingdom
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i did actually consider the idea of using 6mm mdf braced in the corners with triangular shaped pieces then some form of cross bracing to give rigidity

it would be testing to construct right i know, but doing that would actually allow you to use the speaker itself as the baffle

something i'm not sure as to whether or not has been noted in this thread is that you can creat the illusion of a small box simply by having a small baffle you can then extend backwards to get the desired volume

a high gloss mirror like finish also helps with the small size illusion by reflecting it's surroundings making it almost disappear
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Old 14th March 2006, 05:20 PM   #160
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Sorry, I'm quite the n00b to audio. What is a linkwitz transformer?
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