Hi to all,
I have these Dyn's for a while, and from the begining I had problem whith them, but until recently I did not relized what's hapening (and especially how to describe!), until I found the exact description for the probem:
(quote from: http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/dynaudio52sep2.php):
"I was eager to hear the bass response of this song on the Dyne's and fired it up. Instead I heard a shockingly loud popping sound predominantly out of the right speaker each time the bass drum hit at the song's intro. Thinking there must be a defect in the woofers voice coil assembly, I immediately turned the music down, disconnected the right speaker and re-listened with just the left one. The popping sound surfaced again, but I had to inch the volume up just a tad for it to be as loud as it was heard on the right speaker. What I was hearing was the woofer bottoming out. I was astonished to hear this in a modern day speaker, especially since most drivers now employee a shorting ring on the bottom of the pole piece to prevent the voice coil from going out of the gap".
The cited text is from a review of Dynaudio Audience 52SE, which is said, uses the same drivers as the (now discontinued) old Contours.
My question is:
1. Can I do something to resolve this, exept saling the speakers?
2. Does exist some possibilities to increase the sensitivity of the speakers, by changing/upgrading crossover components?
I'm newbee here, and with restricted knowledge/experience in loudspeakers arena.
I have these Dyn's for a while, and from the begining I had problem whith them, but until recently I did not relized what's hapening (and especially how to describe!), until I found the exact description for the probem:
(quote from: http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/dynaudio52sep2.php):
"I was eager to hear the bass response of this song on the Dyne's and fired it up. Instead I heard a shockingly loud popping sound predominantly out of the right speaker each time the bass drum hit at the song's intro. Thinking there must be a defect in the woofers voice coil assembly, I immediately turned the music down, disconnected the right speaker and re-listened with just the left one. The popping sound surfaced again, but I had to inch the volume up just a tad for it to be as loud as it was heard on the right speaker. What I was hearing was the woofer bottoming out. I was astonished to hear this in a modern day speaker, especially since most drivers now employee a shorting ring on the bottom of the pole piece to prevent the voice coil from going out of the gap".
The cited text is from a review of Dynaudio Audience 52SE, which is said, uses the same drivers as the (now discontinued) old Contours.
My question is:
1. Can I do something to resolve this, exept saling the speakers?
2. Does exist some possibilities to increase the sensitivity of the speakers, by changing/upgrading crossover components?
I'm newbee here, and with restricted knowledge/experience in loudspeakers arena.
Hi,
I used to own a pair of 1.3SE and NEVER had that problem. I hate to break it to you but there's nothing much you can do cept play at softer levels or add a subwoofer to the stereo to avoid the bookshelf speakers' woofer over exerting.
Voice coil height is something that doesn't vary so much one production batch's driver might bottom out easier than the next.
I used to own a pair of 1.3SE and NEVER had that problem. I hate to break it to you but there's nothing much you can do cept play at softer levels or add a subwoofer to the stereo to avoid the bookshelf speakers' woofer over exerting.
Voice coil height is something that doesn't vary so much one production batch's driver might bottom out easier than the next.
Hi,
Did you check the connections to the voice coil of your speaker. I once heard the same kind of sounds from my dynaudio 17W75 woofer and I discovered the connection between the voice coil and the terminal strip was almost loose. Dynaudio fixed the problem for a reasonable price. Never had problems after.
Did you check the connections to the voice coil of your speaker. I once heard the same kind of sounds from my dynaudio 17W75 woofer and I discovered the connection between the voice coil and the terminal strip was almost loose. Dynaudio fixed the problem for a reasonable price. Never had problems after.
I have A set of Dyns in my car, as well as a pair of Dyn knockoffs called Dynavox. I have something to happen similar to you with both sets if played too load with too much bass. From what I've come to be told, its the voicecoil spamming into the back of the magnet. Whats your bass level cranked up to? You mentioned wanting to hear the bass response, so I would imagine you have it set too high and the volume up too much and its causing it to bottom out. Try turning downt he bass level and see what happenes. That solved my problem and I havent had it happen again int he 7 years I've owned my dyns in my car....
To: fishball79
Before I purchased the C1, I had the 1.3SE's and with them, I never experienced any problems like this, too.
But, those drivers are upgraded version to 1.3mk2, and despite similar look, are different (extra long throw, dual ferrite/neodymium magnet system).
To: Hilko Peter
I've checked everything inside both speakers, including all parts of the crossover- everything is very good, even the tolerance of the parts is closer than is noted on them.
To: JCoffey
Yes, increasing the bass worsened the poping, but I'm always using bypassed controls.
I'm now almost sure that's a genuine problem of particular drivers, and that cannot be solved wiothout changing the wofers, and Dynaudio now has very strong policy not to supply drivers to anyone.
Thak you very much for the inputs, I think it is worth to discuss this item
Any better idea?
Before I purchased the C1, I had the 1.3SE's and with them, I never experienced any problems like this, too.
But, those drivers are upgraded version to 1.3mk2, and despite similar look, are different (extra long throw, dual ferrite/neodymium magnet system).
To: Hilko Peter
I've checked everything inside both speakers, including all parts of the crossover- everything is very good, even the tolerance of the parts is closer than is noted on them.
To: JCoffey
Yes, increasing the bass worsened the poping, but I'm always using bypassed controls.
I'm now almost sure that's a genuine problem of particular drivers, and that cannot be solved wiothout changing the wofers, and Dynaudio now has very strong policy not to supply drivers to anyone.
Thak you very much for the inputs, I think it is worth to discuss this item
Any better idea?
To: fishball79
Before I purchased the C1, I had the 1.3SE's and with them, I never experienced any problems like this, too.
But, those drivers are upgraded version to 1.3mk2, and despite similar look, are different (extra long throw, dual ferrite/neodymium magnet system).
To: Hilko Peter
I've checked everything inside both speakers, including all parts of the crossover- everything is very good, even the tolerance of the parts is closer than is noted on them.
To: JCoffey
Yes, increasing the bass worsened the poping, but I'm always using bypassed controls.
I'm now almost sure that's a genuine problem of particular drivers, and that cannot be solved wiothout changing the wofers, and Dynaudio now has very strong policy not to supply drivers to anyone.
Thak you very much for the inputs, I think it is worth to discuss this item
Any better idea?
__________________
eddie
Since it seems the problem for all of you guys is with loudness and bass response, it seems fairly likely that you've blown the voice coils or in some other way damaged the drivers. Best bet is to have them checked by a knowledeable technician and then repaired. Once that is done and you want more bass, get a subwoofer. If you turn up the volume loud enough to clip the amp, you will damgage virtually any speaker.
P.S. I feel reasonably sure Dynaudio would replace the drivers if they are damaged, though they will probably want it done by some qualified tech.
Before I purchased the C1, I had the 1.3SE's and with them, I never experienced any problems like this, too.
But, those drivers are upgraded version to 1.3mk2, and despite similar look, are different (extra long throw, dual ferrite/neodymium magnet system).
To: Hilko Peter
I've checked everything inside both speakers, including all parts of the crossover- everything is very good, even the tolerance of the parts is closer than is noted on them.
To: JCoffey
Yes, increasing the bass worsened the poping, but I'm always using bypassed controls.
I'm now almost sure that's a genuine problem of particular drivers, and that cannot be solved wiothout changing the wofers, and Dynaudio now has very strong policy not to supply drivers to anyone.
Thak you very much for the inputs, I think it is worth to discuss this item
Any better idea?
__________________
eddie
Since it seems the problem for all of you guys is with loudness and bass response, it seems fairly likely that you've blown the voice coils or in some other way damaged the drivers. Best bet is to have them checked by a knowledeable technician and then repaired. Once that is done and you want more bass, get a subwoofer. If you turn up the volume loud enough to clip the amp, you will damgage virtually any speaker.
P.S. I feel reasonably sure Dynaudio would replace the drivers if they are damaged, though they will probably want it done by some qualified tech.
No, the drivers are not damaged. After all, refer to the first post, or the web site cited- it seems that those drivers are not "protected" from bottoming the end, since the autor of the text noted this is unusual these days, when some rubber ring (or whatsoever) is usually included exactely to protect from this.
I can guess only, adding ruber or anything, can restrict the dynamic/excursions of the coil.
I also use high capability amp (Primare A30.1), and it is not prone to easy clipping, certainly not with 0,06 Ohms output resistance, 2x300VA dual mono tranformers and 40A maximum peaks.
I can guess only, adding ruber or anything, can restrict the dynamic/excursions of the coil.
I also use high capability amp (Primare A30.1), and it is not prone to easy clipping, certainly not with 0,06 Ohms output resistance, 2x300VA dual mono tranformers and 40A maximum peaks.
"I also use high capability amp (Primare A30.1), and it is not prone to easy clipping, certainly not with 0,06 Ohms output resistance, 2x300VA dual mono tranformers and 40A maximum peaks."
I really wouldn't consider that a large power supply by any standard.... My Mini Aleph has a 320 va tranny while my KSA-50 has dual 800va tranies for just a 50 watt pch amp. That amp of yours may swing 40 amp peaks but it would only be into very low impedances for extremely short ms durations...... Keeping in mind that the Pass X-1000 also does 40 amps into 8 ohms..... but this is continous amp!
It appears that you are wanting the Coutours to do something that are not capable of so you may want to consider a subwoofer, or larger speakers and an amplifier that can exert a bit more authority on the speaker. My KSA's drive my Audience 9's to ear shattering levels without clipping the amps or bottoming out the woofers and I think thats what you are wanting to do.
Mark
I really wouldn't consider that a large power supply by any standard.... My Mini Aleph has a 320 va tranny while my KSA-50 has dual 800va tranies for just a 50 watt pch amp. That amp of yours may swing 40 amp peaks but it would only be into very low impedances for extremely short ms durations...... Keeping in mind that the Pass X-1000 also does 40 amps into 8 ohms..... but this is continous amp!
It appears that you are wanting the Coutours to do something that are not capable of so you may want to consider a subwoofer, or larger speakers and an amplifier that can exert a bit more authority on the speaker. My KSA's drive my Audience 9's to ear shattering levels without clipping the amps or bottoming out the woofers and I think thats what you are wanting to do.
Mark
Ok you're right, but just in half-way. As far as I know, your cited amps are working in a pure "A" class (at least Pass and Krell), and that's complete different story. I'm not considering my amp as BIG, but just as enough stable to exclude clipping as a cause.
I had once also Audience 50, and with the same amp it was possible to shake the floor pretty much, but again - that's not the point of this discussion.
Here I have one problem which I simply can not resolve alone- and this is not the case in unsane demands of both the speakers and amp.
The problem is the big excursions of the coil and its bottoming to the end of the gap, as I can understand from the cited text written by obviously knoledgable guy.
The question is, why both speakers using same woofers (Audience 52SE and 1.3mk2) under the same conditions have identical problem and other, using somewhat different drivers (e.g Audience 50-standard model, 1.3mk2 SE, and my newest C1) not.
And yes, how to ovecome that?
Can I do something in the crossover, drivers, or...?
I apologize if the misunderstanding is due to my language, I'm trying to keep things as clear as I know.
I had once also Audience 50, and with the same amp it was possible to shake the floor pretty much, but again - that's not the point of this discussion.
Here I have one problem which I simply can not resolve alone- and this is not the case in unsane demands of both the speakers and amp.
The problem is the big excursions of the coil and its bottoming to the end of the gap, as I can understand from the cited text written by obviously knoledgable guy.
The question is, why both speakers using same woofers (Audience 52SE and 1.3mk2) under the same conditions have identical problem and other, using somewhat different drivers (e.g Audience 50-standard model, 1.3mk2 SE, and my newest C1) not.
And yes, how to ovecome that?
Can I do something in the crossover, drivers, or...?
I apologize if the misunderstanding is due to my language, I'm trying to keep things as clear as I know.
Although I cannot say why one speaker has this problem and the other one doesnt I can tell you something that may help to fix it.
The dyns probably have very little output below 40hz or even 50hz depending on the design. Now they are ported, so below the tuning frequency of the port excursion of the driver will increase hugely, whilst providing almost no output anyway.
According to hifi news the contor 1.4's are tuned to about 45hz so I would imagine the 1.3's are not too different from this.
If you play lots of music which has very low bass content, 30hz etc, not uncommon in rap, pop, RnB etc then your drivers are going to run out of excursion quite quickly and as you have noticed make nasty noises when they do.
The only thing I can recommend is setting up a PLLXO or an active xover 24dB/ octave at around 40hz. This will help to limit the excursion at frequencies the speaker cannot reproduce anyway.
But if the frequencies you are having problems with are around 40-60hz then there is not a lot you can do about it appart from crossing over at 80hz to a sub.
The dyns probably have very little output below 40hz or even 50hz depending on the design. Now they are ported, so below the tuning frequency of the port excursion of the driver will increase hugely, whilst providing almost no output anyway.
According to hifi news the contor 1.4's are tuned to about 45hz so I would imagine the 1.3's are not too different from this.
If you play lots of music which has very low bass content, 30hz etc, not uncommon in rap, pop, RnB etc then your drivers are going to run out of excursion quite quickly and as you have noticed make nasty noises when they do.
The only thing I can recommend is setting up a PLLXO or an active xover 24dB/ octave at around 40hz. This will help to limit the excursion at frequencies the speaker cannot reproduce anyway.
But if the frequencies you are having problems with are around 40-60hz then there is not a lot you can do about it appart from crossing over at 80hz to a sub.
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