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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 23rd March 2005, 03:50 AM   #11
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Dude you rock! Thanks for taking the time to go into the detail that you have.

I guess the book is the best plan; most of the time when I ask questions of this nature, the answer I usually get it is "It depends on...." and a whole new batch of variables is introduced into an increasingly complex equation, and I end up more confused. I'm just convinced it should be simpler - the only difference that matters is one you can hear.

I think this is a difficult subject to address - one has to have a more tangible starting point, such as the drivers, speaker type, etc., from which the crossover will evolve. Plus I'm sure I need software to be able to test everything, which I don't have. Maybe a basic rule of thumb is to just start with good quality components and you'll be on the right track.

As for the orders, I have a basic grasp of that, but I have no idea how the various types sound in relation to the eachother. My thinking is that the bottom line should be to achieve the flattest frequency response possible - that seems to be a universal goal, with perhaps many many ways to get there.

BTW - is there any particular software (speaker design, etc.) you'd recommend? Thanks again!
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Old 23rd March 2005, 12:20 PM   #12
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There are a bunch of variables. I just gave a very simple explanation of the basics.
Yes, measurement is very important. As for software, my experience is that you get what you pay for. There is freeware out there that works but isn't very intuitive.
http://www.speakerworkshop.com
You'll need a microphone and probably a pre-amp, a computer and a good soundcard.
Pjay wrote a good summary here.
http://members.aol.com/pjay99site/buildspeaker.htm
A very popular piece of software for crossover simulation is LspCAD. Usually, you would make your measurements, then import the data into LspCAD and use it to model your crossover.
http://www.ijdata.com/
Personally, I got tired of trying to make JustMLS work with a cheap Berhinger mic and preamp and bought Praxis. The combination of Praxis and LspCAD works well but takes a certain amount of committment (read money).
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Old 23rd March 2005, 01:35 PM   #13
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As well as the advice from others, I would also recommend playing around with the spreadsheets and programs here: http://www.pvconsultants.com/audio/frdgroup.htm

And reading the articles here: http://www.pvconsultants.com/audio/frdarticles.htm
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Old 23rd March 2005, 03:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by sdclc126
I guess the book is the best plan
Yes it really is. It is apparent that you have a great interest in all of this, you just lack the knowledge at this point. Rather than beat your head against the wall trying to sort it out here, the book will give you lots of info so you can come back less frustrated.

Re: The coil with the broken lead wire:
Chokes are simply magnet wire (copper with a coating) wound around a core which is removed later to leave you an "air core". As Tim said, you can usually just free up a little wire off the coil and scrape off the coating before you resolder it back into the circuit. It won't change anything that much.

Perhaps Bill was unaware of your level of knowledge when he answered the question. He's been at this for a long time and sometimes forgets that not everyone sleeps with a cap and coil under their pillow. He wasn't trying to be rude.

Anyway, get the book, do the reading and come back with your questions. We'll be more useful to you when you have a little better handle on it.

Glad to see your interest in it as it is one heck of a way to spend your free time. Keep us in tune with your progress.

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Old 23rd March 2005, 07:53 PM   #15
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I know "Bill" wasn't trying to be rude - and I really wasn't trying to be rude back - it's just that none of the questions I was really asking were addressed - so I gave a very short and rather "curt" response - out of frustration that I wasn't getting the info I wanted. Sorry Bill!! Hope I'll still hear from you in the future?

The idea was that I had a broken part, and, as DIYers, we don't just like to fix things - we like to IMPROVE them - so I thought this was a perfect opportunity to ask what would be a better choke/inductor to replace the one that fell off.

I have a really nice set of crossovers I bought off eBay, out of an audiophile (a/d/s/) set of speakers (I don't have the speakers), so it seems I have a perfect opportunity to tinker with these things as a project and maybe resell them. I was just thinking of replacing all the components with components of equivalent specs but higher quality, just to get my feet wet. This seems the simplest way to do it.

Yeah, it won't make much sense to talk crossovers without having speakers to put 'em in, and without a measuring system set up, so I guess I'll be back when I've learned more and am working on specific projects.

But hey, while we're here, are there some basic mathematical formulas for determining the specs of crossover parts to set crossover frequencies at least? Or is this still putting the cart before the horsre?
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Old 23rd March 2005, 08:11 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by sdclc126 as DIYers, we don't just like to fix things - we like to IMPROVE them - so I thought this was a perfect opportunity to ask what would be a better choke/inductor to replace the one that fell off.
Not sure why you want to replace it. Hot glue and a soldering iron work fine. Do you have a picture of the "broken" coil?

Quote:
[i]I have a really nice set of crossovers I bought off eBay, I was just thinking of replacing all the components with components of equivalent specs but higher quality, just to get my feet wet. This seems the simplest way to do it. [/B]
I wouldn't bother. You're not really accomplishing anything. It's like replacing the tires on wheels you can't use on your car, just so you know how to replace tires. The crossover isn't something that you buy really good parts for and just throw it at your speakers. It doesn't work that way. First you match 2, 3, or 4 drivers with one another and then you design the XO to match the drivers. The crossovers you have, you might never find a use for unless you find drivers to match them. But I don't expect you are going to try that. That's a dumb way of going about it.

Quote:
[i]But hey, while we're here, are there some basic mathematical formulas for determining the specs of crossover parts to set crossover frequencies at least? Or is this still putting the cart before the horsre? [/B]
There are many calculators out there. Here's one:
http://www.mhsoft.nl/spk_calc.asp

And lastly, go get the book before your horse trips over the cart. You're full of pith and vinegar, now make good use of it.

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Old 23rd March 2005, 08:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
I have a really nice set of crossovers I bought off eBay
Your first lesson should be to never do that again unless you're just after the individual components. Ready made crossovers are worse than useless.
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Old 24th March 2005, 02:49 AM   #18
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quote:
I have a really nice set of crossovers I bought off eBay

"Your first lesson should be to never do that again unless you're just after the individual components. Ready made crossovers are worse than useless."

I don't think you followed what I was saying, but I didn't give all the details - I ONLY buy a/d/s/ components off eBay (I didn't tell you that part) - I've owned a/d/s/ speakers for years and have used them in my home, car, etc. So when I buy a/d/s/ drivers I buy a/d/s/ crossovers. They are not "ready made" - they are engineered by a high end manufacturer for their particular drivers/speakers.

Since I don't know how to build crossovers this is the best I can do, and I've had great results. This particular set of crossovers was for a project I was doing for my sister, with a/d/s/ drivers. I know there are issues with the individual driver sizes & specs, etc., but again, if I want to just build a speaker, rather than engineering one, which I'm just not equipped to do, this is a reasonable compromise.
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Old 24th March 2005, 03:00 AM   #19
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cal Weldon
[B]
"Not sure why you want to replace it. Hot glue and a soldering iron work fine. Do you have a picture of the "broken" coil?"

Thanks for the calculator link Cal. As I said before, I wanted to replace it with something higher end, just for fun really, just to learn how, just for grins and giggles!! Because I can! Because it's there! Because I'm a DIYer and I can't leave well enough alone!



"I wouldn't bother. You're not really accomplishing anything. It's like replacing the tires on wheels you can't use on your car, just so you know how to replace tires. The crossover isn't something that you buy really good parts for and just throw it at your speakers. It doesn't work that way. First you match 2, 3, or 4 drivers with one another and then you design the XO to match the drivers. The crossovers you have, you might never find a use for unless you find drivers to match them. But I don't expect you are going to try that. That's a dumb way of going about it."

Well, this is all true, but if I was going to put the crossovers back on the speakers they came from, or use them with a project using the original drivers, I think it would be a sensible project. It's really replacing the tires on wheels I CAN use on my car - BETTER wheels than it came with.
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Old 24th March 2005, 03:04 AM   #20
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"Not sure why you want to replace it. Hot glue and a soldering iron work fine. Do you have a picture of the "broken" coil?"

Forgot this one other one - I don't have a photo of the broken coil. I suppose it would help clear the air about this whole business if I let everyone know that one of the more significant reasons I want to replace it is that I LOST THE ******* THING!
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