how does one make a super tweeter

[cporada]

Just to set the record straight, I am not supposing I have canine hearing ability and can hear information beyond 20kHz, nor was I hoping to transform my system into one for superheroes with fancy clothes. Instead, I was interested in the effect this extended response would have on the music within the range of human hearing. The following is a quote from the Tannoy website (Tannoy maufactures 3 models of super tweeters for use on their own speakers and those of other manufacturers), explaining why one would be interested in this sort of thing:

A SuperTweeter is a small high frequency drive unit, mounted in a special casing, designed to sit on top of, and drawing its input signal from, existing speakers. Tannoy SuperTweeter™ will transform any sound system, creating the effect of a quantum leap upgrade in the sound quality of speakers, electronic components and cables. All models are stand-alone units with vertical axis adjustment to ensure optimum combined acoustic output with the main speaker. Each has two sets of controls allowing both operating frequency and output level to be optimized for any type of speaker.
The SuperTweeter is designed to provide the extended high frequency response demanded by modern program material and sources (e.g. SACD / DVDA), which have driven the requirement for loudspeakers with extended frequency bandwidth performance. Always at the forefront of audio evolution, Tannoy has been developing just such wide bandwidth loudspeaker technology over many years. Music contains transient information and rich harmonics beyond the range of human hearing for pure tones. Even bass notes have leading edge transients reaching 30kHz. Operating between the roll-off point of the high frequency unit of your existing loudspeakers and 54kHz, the Tannoy SuperTweeter will accurately reproduce the leading edge of individual notes allowing the listener to experience the entire bandwidth information of instruments.
In addition, by extending the frequency response by two octaves corrects time and phase response within the bandwidth of normal human hearing. Taking these acoustical phase anomalies beyond the range of human hearing adds realism to the soundstage by improving imaging and placement of instruments. The SuperTweeter provides an increased immediacy, airiness and impact - making music sound more natural and true to life.

[madinoz]

No one has yet mentioned the Vifa XT25 tweeter which has a lowish impedence and a reasonably good sensitivity. You could rig up your own mini-stands perhaps with a provision for altering their angle so that you could aim them directly at your listening position.
Don't be too put off by the nay-sayers. Try the super tweeters and see for your self.
If you make the stands large enough you could even put on a pair of red underpants and a cape

[johnkramer]

I'm on the fence with the whole thing.

I guess on one hand, if you can't hear a 30khz transient in real life, what good would it do in "audio life"*? It is beyond most human hearing afterall.

On the other hand, what if that 30khz transient (just using the figure as an example) has harmonics in the lower registers that are audible...

But then again, if that harmonic is be audible in real life, then the microphone should catch it in AL*.

And then the time and phase response thing... I can't argue chasing that dragon at all but since we're talking about a super tweeter, that alone suggests it is part of a multiway system. Time and phase tend to get all swirled up in multiway speakers and I cannot see how a super tweeter can fix that.

I really can't say for sure. I don't dismiss it though.


* AL, Audio Life. I consider any audible wave that has been trapped in time, recorded in some manner, then spat back out as an audible wave at some later date, to be Audio Life.

[qwad]

True; but dont forget the clever marketing people have to justify why you should buy one, and make more $s for mfctrs like tannoy,so dont lose sight of the game plan, like another poster wrote or implied you may not notice the difference but if you do invest in one go and see your friendly quack and get your ears flushed just to make sure you do get your moneys worth [ in other words ] hear a difference....;.. its all part of hi-fi mumbo jumbo, in fact you would be better off consulting your friendly local witch doctor to make sure , the moon is in the right phase and the planets are aligned just so..... cheers and welcome to the madding crowd, at least some of us still have our feet firmly planted on the ground; all the best, l'm sure you can talk yourself into and out of it to justify yr decision without prejudice T.C.

[FrankWW]

I've got a couple of the Ratshack Realistic (40-1310) standalone supertweeters and they do make a good qualitative difference to the sound of violins. I put them on top of a pair old Kilpshorn clones. (But my original tweeters are older than God and probably need the help).

Certainly they'd be a cheap experiment:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...760515688&rd=1

[Stevenacnj]

E Speakers sells the LCY add on super tweeter which looks nice and is reasonably priced:

LCY Super Tweeter

Also AV123 is supposed to release their ERT (extended range tweeter). Again reasonably priced add on super tweeter:

ERT

[Gregm]

Don't forget that even IF you can hear (or, say, PERCEIVE) musical sound over 18kHz or whatever, it has to exist in the storage medium in the first place...
This probably rules out cee dee...

In the second place, IF such musical content exists in the storage medium, the rest of the reproduction sys must be capable of sending it to the speakers.

Finally, if the above apply, then you can't always be sure IF the positive effect (we assume positive) is due to supersonics or reinforcement in the af band...

Too many ifs...

I love supertweets (say, a Murata, a Tad, or a Thiele). There's something majestic about beng able to reproduce 50kHz However the subjective "positive" effects I had by trying one, when measured, turned out to be mostly an energy boost at the last octave -- and that's with a TT source & a supposedly "broadband" system. There WAS content over 20kHz, btw. HOWEVER, when we added "normal" tweets (playing as "supertweets") instead of the Murata, the sonic effect was similar -- i.e. reinforcement within the audio band. Of course with the normal tweet we got little energy over 21kHz.

This little Sat night experiment isn't conclusive, pls don't misunderstand me. I'm just wondering why we'd add a second tweet if we can get one to get us 98%+ there...

[cporada]

Following madinoz's advice, I looked at the Vifa XT25 at Parts Express. According to Vifa's white paper, the XT25TG30-04 claims a response up to 40kHz and decent sensitivity (91.5db), so it looks like it could work pretty well as a super tweeter. Does anyone have any suggestion how to build a simple crossover (maybe with level adjustment would be good to try to match the output to that of my main speakers) to make a super tweeter out of one of these units if my main speakers have an upper f3 of 18kHz and a sensitivity of around 93db? The main tweeter in my full range system is a Vifa D25T(? alternatively referred to as H25T in manual) partially horn-loaded impedence-matching soft-dome (not aluminum) tweeter with a sensitivity of around 94db, according to the paperwork that came with the ACI parts kit I used to build the system (the Alpha limited project). Unfortunately I cannot easily take out the tweeter to get at the actual model number on the unit, since I foolishly used silocin sealant to attach it to the front baffle.
Thanks for any help
Chris